corolla ae86 vs 240sx

[Wolfwood]

Hello, When i searched i couldnt believe this comparision had not been made yet. Both the 240sx and the corolla gts (rwd ae86) are two of the best handling, inexpensive cars on the road. Toyota and nissan, are both good companies, and both cars are good looking, imo. After i looked into it, i discovered the corolla, which is hard to find in good condition, is almost as much money as the much newer nissan. Their reputations for great handling proceed them, my quetion is: which is the better handling car? And if we can establish that objectively, then id be interested to know why people like either better based on subjective opionions.

[kman10587]

The AE86 Trueno doesn't handle as well as you may think. The 240SX (Silvia) is definitely better, at least in stock form.

[aznxthuggie]

i say the 240, the nissan engines (imo) have better potential and a larger

[kman10587]

He asked about handling, not about engines.

[NISSANSPDR]

Handling wise I think the slight edge goes to the 240SX...but there's like a 550 lb difference between the cars so you must take that into acount...the AE86 weighes like 2050 lbs while the 240SX S13 coupe weighes in at 2600 lbs

[Zwrangler]

you must watch a lot of initial D

In stock i'd have to agree that the nissan is a better handling car, but with the right suspension tuning and modification almost any car can be made to handle like a dream.
If it were a choice between which to buy i'd definitely go with the AE86 coz its much rarer and unique, looks better in my opinion and has a reputation as good as the nissan.

[kman10587]

Agreed, the AE86 Trueno has a bad-ass factor to it and I'd definitely take it over a Silvia. Besides, with some chassis and suspension upgrades, it'll handle as well as anything out there.

[Layla's Keeper]

Well, the AE86 is a lighter platform with more compact dimensions and less suspension travel at the front, so it is a nimble car. However, the S13 has the advantage of a well thought out multi-link rear-suspension, more sporting damping, and larger width tires.

However, the S13 does have a critical weakness in its front suspension design. There's a lot of travel in the front suspension because of pick-up points and control arms designed more with a comfortable ride than true sporting potential in mind. As such, the S13 has a lot of roll at the nose and not much at the tail, leading to some pretty piggish understeer when pushed. The AE86 tends to skitter and hop when pushed, with a lot of tire howl and lateral sliding.

And, in reality, neither is a particularly good handling car at the price. AE86's have practically no lateral grip, and S13's plow like Sister Sara's mule. A 3rd generation Camaro actually posts better numbers and has better handling characteristics than either car (don't believe me? look at the American Sedan class in the SCCA) thanks to a low-slung wide chassis and a very well done unequal length A-arm front suspension.

[Layla's Keeper]

Well, the DSM 1st gens had a narrow track coupled with tall strut suspension, ergo roll. Couple that with a very nose-heavy layout and dangblasted strut suspension and they basically love to dig on the outside front tire and lift the inside rear, all the while wanting to turn turtle.

It's pretty funny from a chassis man's perspective to hear riceboys talking about how great the handling is on their cars, and then take a look at all the band-aids they throw at the cars. They rush to ultra stiff coil-overs, massive swaybars, huge wheels & tires, and polyurethane bushings without actually taking the time to realize why the car doesn't turn when they want it to or why the car just seems to get worse and worse.

The best way to tighten up a chassis is not to stiffen up the parts that move, but to reduce the range of movement. This is why F1 cars don't have hinged or pivoting suspensions anymore and instead use flexible carbon-fiber blades for suspension. More control over movement, more gradual movement, less roll, dive, and droop in the chassis, more neutral and less easily unbalanced chassis.

[racer_in_black]

The corolla is more responsive which in turn makes it better when it comes to handling. Stock that is, aftermarket it would depend on everything that's been dumped in there and the driver.

[Layla's Keeper]

How is it more responsive? Or are you just throwing that out there to sound informed?

[kman10587]

E30 BMW 3 Series are pretty damn good. The 240SX is fine if you have the money to upgrade the suspension.

[NISSANSPDR]

Originally Posted by kman10587

The 240SX is fine if you have the money to upgrade the suspension.

It doesnt take much to make the handle well...w/my 240SX I got springs and shox and it made a world of a difference and I was beating up on S2k's, M Coupe's and such at the road events...

[Layla's Keeper]

E36 BMW is a pretty good handling car, and the 316i compact version is coming into affordable status pretty well now. The 3rd and 4th generation Chevy Camaro Z28 and its Pontiac Firebird Trans-Am stablemate are also very good handling machines (just with slightly less friendly rides).

FC RX7's also handle quite well, although their tails have a tendency to bite and then step out as opposed to a nice gradual slide. I could also recommend a Z31 Nissan 300ZX, even though that particular generation can be coerced into sudden snap oversteer.

But, I stand by my assessment that the best choice for the money is a 3rd or 4th generation Camaro. These cars are absolutely dynamite on a road course and tuning the suspension is relatively simple compared to many others.

[Layla's Keeper]

Actually, the Fox-body 'Stangs aren't being mentioned because they are terrible handling cars. They understeer into the corner and then snap into oversteer at the exit, all the while rolling and howling like a stuck pig.

Grassroots Motorsports Magazine had an excellent article a few months back when they started their project autocross Fox body. They went very in depth into not only what the Mustang's handling problems were, but also into why the Mustang had these problems (explaining things like the poorly placed roll center) and how to cure them and in what classes of competition the cure is legal.

The cure being to fully replace the K-member of the Fox body Mustang so that the control arms can be relocated.

You gotta remember, the Fox-body Mustang started out as the 1978 Ford Fairmont sedan. It can be made sporting, but is a very flawed platform from the factory. The front end rolls into the corner, understeering badly, then the non-parallel four-link rear end binds up in side to side movement and the rear end breaks loose, sending the car into a tight and embarassing spin.

That is the essence of Fox Mustang handling. Push then snap.