Assassination Plot

[Flatrater]

Kerry Involved in 1971 Anti-war Plot
to Assassinate U.S. Senators?


U.S. Veteran Dispatch
August 8, 2004


Thomas H. Lipscomb, writing for the New York Sun reported March 13, 2004, that in 1971, the pro-Hanoi anti-war group that presidential candidate John Kerry was principal leader and spokesman of debated and voted down a plot to assassinate U.S. Senators who supported the Vietnam War. Numerous media outlets claim witnesses and FBI documents conclusively place Kerry at that November 1971 meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) in Kansas City.

The revelation that VVAW debated killing members of Congress is not a new. The plot was reported in Gerald Nicosia's 2001 book, Home To War. Nicosia wrote that one of the key leaders of the organization, former Marine Scott Camil, "proposed the assassination of the most hard-core conservative members of Congress, as well as any other powerful, intractable opponents of the antiwar movement."

According to the Nicosia book and interviews with VVAW members who were involved, at the VVAW's Kansas City leadership conference, Camil called together eight to 10 former Marines to organize their version "The Phoenix Project." The original Phoenix Project during the Vietnam War was a secret program designed to destroy the Vietnamese Communist leadership by assassination.

Camil's Phoenix Project planned to execute the Southern senatorial leadership Senators like John Stennis, Strom Thurmond, and John Tower who were voting to finance the Vietnam War. The senators were to be killed during the Senate Christmas recess the following month.

Mr. Nicosia's book recounts that Camil's plan was presented to all the chapter coordinators present and the VVAW leadership.

"What Camil sketched was so explosive that the coordinators feared lest government agents even hear of it. So they decamped to a church on the outskirts of town with the intention of debating the plan in complete privacy. When they got to the church, however, they found that the government was already on to them; their 'debugging expert' uncovered microphones hidden all over the place. An instantaneous decision was made to move again to Common Ground, a Mennonite hall used by homeless vets as a 'crash pad.'"

Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, said Kerry did not attend the Kansas City meeting, and Kerry biographer Douglas Brinkley said Kerry told him he was a "noshow."

"Kerry may have resigned shortly after that meeting or at the meeting…" recalled the VVAW Kansas State coordinator at the time of the meeting, John Musgrave, in a March 13, 2004, Kansas City Star interview.

Musgrave, a disabled ex-marine from Baldwin City, Kansas, told the Star that he specifically remembered Kerry's attendance and his speaking against the murder plot.
Musgrave said he got a call from John Hurley, the Kerry campaign's veterans coordinator saying "I'd like you to refresh your memory." Musgrave said Hurley said it twice. "Call that reporter back and say you were mistaken about John Kerry being there."

Musgrave said, "I told Hurley it was my first meeting as a state officer of the VVAW, and I remember John being there. I remember what I remember."

Musgrave told Lipscomb that he received three Purple Hearts in Vietnam. After the third Purple Heart for wounds by three 7.62 rounds, one to the jaw and two to the left chest, Musgrave refused the standard release from further service in the combat zone offered Marines with three Purple Hearts and tried to return to his unit, he said. Because of the extent of his injuries he was retired from the Marines with full disability and sent home, he said.
When asked whom he is supporting in the presidential election, Musgrave replied, "I am undecided. But I am sure not voting for some guy who called me a liar."


Kerry's camp said the Massachusetts Democrat does not recall the meeting, although FBI surveillance material and the group's archives clearly show that Kerry resigned from his post as VVAW national coordinator at that November 1971 meeting.

Was Kerry obligated to report the VVAW assassination plot to authorities???

Under certain conditions, knowing about such a plot and not reporting it is a crime

[Flatrater]

New Witness: Kerry Was Present at Dark Plot Meeting
Group Debated and Voted Down Plan To AssassinateSenators

By THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB
Oregon Magazine
March 15, 2004
Another witness has come forward to attest that John Kerry was at a November 1971 meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which the group debated and voted down a plan to assassinate senators who supported the Vietnam War.


A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, has said Mr. Kerry did not attend the Kansas City meeting, and Kerry biographer Douglas Brinkley has said Mr. Kerry told him he was a "no show."

"Kerry may have resigned shortly after that meeting or at the meeting…" recalled the VVAW Kansas State coordinator at the time, John Musgrave, in an interview that was published Saturday in the Kansas City Star. Mr. Musgrave is the third VVAW member at the time that has been named as seeing Mr. Kerry at Kansas City. Mr. Musgrave specifically remembered Mr. Kerry's attendance and his speaking against the murder plot against the senators.

The Star cited the national director of Veterans for Kerry, a former VVAW member, John Hurley, as saying: "I think he is confusing the St. Louis and Kansas City meetings." But if Mr. Hurley is acknowledging that Mr. Kerry was present at the earlier St. Louis meeting, he is disagreeing with the Kerry spokesman, Mr. Wade, and calling into doubt a recent statement by Mr. Kerry.


At a Capitol Hill press conference Thursday, Mr. Kerry was asked by a reporter if he thought his credibility had been affected by his close association with Al Hubbard, a key VVAW colleague of Mr. Kerry's who had appointed him to the leadership of Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

Mr. Hubbard claimed to be a wounded Air Force officer who had served at Danang during the Vietnam War. He appeared with Mr. Kerry many times, including the "Meet the Press" interview after Mr. Kerry's Senate testimony about American "war crimes" in Vietnam. But Mr. Hubbard was never in Vietnam, was never wounded, and was not an officer, as subsequent research and Mr. Kerry himself have pointed out.

Mr. Kerry answered he had not spoken to Mr. Hubbard since the week of April 19, 1971. But in the New York Times of August 30, 1971, reporter Enid Nemy, covering an East Hampton fund-raising party for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, states: "Later, Mr. Kerry and Al Hubbard, another veteran, explained some of the aims of the organization…." Those present included journalists Jimmy Breslin and Peter Maas, Bruce Jay Friedman, Tom Paxton, and Patricia Kennedy Lawford.

In separate interviews with The New York Sun, both VVAW member Terry DuBose and Kerry biographer Mr. Brinkley have confirmed Mr. Kerry's presence at the July St. Louis steering committee meeting of the VVAW.

Gerald Nicosia, author of the 2001 book "Home to War," also writes that Mr. Kerry was at that meeting. In a memorable account, Mr. Nicosia said Mr. Kerry "resigned from the executive committee" after a spectacular argument with Mr. Hubbard. "Kerry made a long speech punctuated at frequent intervals by the demand: 'Who is Al Hubbard?'" and "challenged him to prove he was a Vietnam veteran." According to the book, Mr. Hubbard "freaked out" and screamed insults at Mr. Kerry.
In the Kansas City Star account, one of the three veterans who has placed Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting, Randy Barnes, first was quoted as saying Mr. Kerry was in Kansas City, which is what he had stated in his interview with the Sun.

According to the Star, "upon reflection later in the day [Barnes stated] that he could 'not be absolutely certain' that Kerry was in Kansas City for the meeting."

Terry DuBose, who initially remembered a great deal, began having failures of memory on a third call. And Scott Camil, who in his interview with the Sun could not recall whether Mr. Kerry was at the Kansas City meeting, suddenly remembered in talking with the Star several days later that Mr. Kerry was not.

In a March 13, 2004, story, the New York Times cited concern among Democrats about "careless utterances of a fatigued, or undisciplined candidate," but Mr. Wade reassured that "every statement he made we stand by."

[MagicRat]

Flat, we appreciate your vigilence in keeping us informed on the latest anti-Kerry mudslinging propeganda.
But. come on now, speculative articles on what Kerry might have done 33 years ago is really stretches the credibility of anyone trying to make this a serious election issue.

[-Josh-]

That seems to absurd to be true....but then, i wouldn't put it past any of our politicians, not just Kerry.

[YogsVR4]

If he gets elected, I wonder how he will view threats on his life.

[Rbraczyk]

Ah, and let me guess George Bush didnt' snort coke? Right?

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by Rbraczyk

Ah, and let me guess George Bush didnt' snort coke? Right?

1 + 1 = 3?


Following that logic, I suppose the Red Sox haven't been to the world series in 80 years. No wait! That was you who said that.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by Rbraczyk

Ah, and let me guess George Bush didnt' snort coke? Right?

I guess I am one of the only ones to see a difference between plotting to murder people and snorting coke.

It doesn't matter if Kerry was at the meeting but that he belonged to the same group. Did he know about this and say nothing? I am betting Kerry knew and kept his moputh shut.

Why do the libs insist on equating smoking a joint or snorting coke to lying on the stand or plotting murder?

[aloharocky]

Legalizing dope is the mainstay of the democrat base. If Adolf Hitler were alive and running for president, the librals would say, "As long as he legalizes dope, he's our man." Anyways, if there is truth to the story I hope it comes out. Not much hope of CNN running it though. McCain was the librals' favorite, how come they don't believe him now that he says Kerry got them tortured when McCain was a POW?

[Fully_Sick]

Well do you know how much people where killed in third world south american countries to produce that coke?

Both claims are rather ludicrous either way, if people concentrated on the issues that each candidate wishes to uphold along with his promises as appose to their personal history, things would be better.