Cat. Converter Deterioration

[JasonAccord98LX]

Well I finally decided to bring my Accord to the dealer to have them deal with the check engine light. They told me that the codes that the computer spat out were for "cataylitic converter deterioration". I was surprised by this, since my car only has 60k miles on it. The service guy told me that it was fine to run my car like this with the light on. Does anyone know how my converter could deteriorate so soon?? And does the check engine light being on affect the performace of the car? Like does it go into a "limp" mode and disable VTEC or change the air/fuel ratio going to the engine? I am just curious because they told me that a new converter would cost 500-700 bucks. I would buy a used one anyway, but that would still run me 200 or so. Again they told me that it was fine to run the car, and that it would perform normal. Is this true? I know this is a long post, but i just want to make sure that i am doing the right thing. Thanks in advance.

[drift]

first off... cat converters are supposed to last the life of the motor, and is covered under warranty for smog equipment. since you're talking about the dealer, they should replace it for free... unless it is you who ruined it.


second. you're probably running too high of octane for the car, or using really crappy gas, or fuel additives. too high of octane will cause unburned fuel to collect in the cat converter, plugging it up. crappy gas will do the same thing. fuel additives can cause the cat converter to run too hot and/or clog it up due to the same reasons as high octane.


your car needs 87 octane. it's been designed for that fuel. using higher octane merely ends up with unburt or partially burnt fuel, which in turn results in carbon. this carbon then collects in the cat converter and reduces it's efficiency.


never buy a used cat converter. go to a muffler shop and buy a new one for $200.

[JasonAccord98LX]

Thanks a lot drift for the informative post. I didnt know that it was covered by the warranty, since the dealer told me that it most likely wasnt covered and that he would have to check. Thank you for telling me, or else I would have just believed him. Also, I have always ran 87 octane in my car except for like 2 exceptions when the gas station was out of it so I had to use 91. I will go and ask the dealer to check on that warranty issue. My warranty is an extended one that I purchased when I bought the car used at 40k miles. Its a dealer warranty I believe, not a honda one, so maybe is doesnt cover any exhaust parts Do you know for sure? Also, thanks for warning my against a used converter. So you say that it would be a better idea to get one from a muffler shop? Would that be like a midas or something? Thanks again drift.

[JasonAccord98LX]

I just checked my extended warranty paper work, and it says that the converter is not covered. I think this is because it is a warranty designed by the dealer and not by honda. I will, however, take your advice about going to a muffler shop to buy one--you probably saved my a couple hundred dollars drift. thanks. Also, i will probably wait for awhile before i replace it, because the car is running fine. i dont think it is plugged up. I also forgot to mention that when people are behind me and i step on it, they can smell the catalyitc converter, it smells like rotten eggs.

[Someguy]

Check into that closer. Emissions equipment should be covered for 10 years or 100,000 miles under US law. The dealer can't go around that.

[JasonAccord98LX]

Thanks man. Can you show me some proof of that--not that I dont believe you, but i want to have something to show the dealer to convince him. Thanks a lot.

[Someguy]

Thanks man. Can you show me some proof of that--not that I dont believe you, but i want to have something to show the dealer to convince him. Thanks a lot.

Yeah, sure, and I made a bit of a mistake. Its actually 8 years/80,000 miles. The law is the "Clean Air Act" which says that "Catalytic converters, electronic emisssions control unit, and onboard emissions diagnostic device" are covered for 8 year or 80,000 miles (which ever comes first) including diagnostics and labor.

The kicker being if they (the dealer) can show that the part failed because of abuse or misuse (you hit a rock or what not) then its on you.

But regardless, a cat shouldn't cost you anywhere near $500 new. If that is the best you can do I would look into disabling the sensor. Its sometimes called a MLI. Should cost $50 or so.

[JasonAccord98LX]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll see what I can get out of the dealer based on that. Thanks again, I really appreciate your help. Its good to know that there are knowledgeable people around AF who can help others in need.

[fritz_269]

From: http://www.sema.org/content/?ID=22238&criteria=warranty
Clean Air Act Warranty Provisions (42 U.S.C. S 7541 (C) (3) (B))

The federal Clean Air Act requires vehicle makers to provide two emissions-related warranties -- a production warranty and a performance warranty. The production warranty requires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle is designed, built and equipped so that it conforms with emissions requirements at the time of sale. The performance warranty requires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle will comply with applicable emissions requirements as tested under state vehicle emissions inspection programs for the warranty periods specified in the law (for model year 1995 and later vehicles, the warranty is 2 years/24,000 miles for all emissions-related parts and 8 years/80,000 miles for the catalytic converter, electronic emissions control unit and on-board diagnostic device). The performance warranty is conditioned on the vehicle being properly maintained and operated.

Like the Magnuson-Moss Act, vehicle manufacturers may not refuse warranty repairs under the Clean Air Acts performance and defect warranties merely because aftermarket parts have been installed on the vehicle. The only circumstance under which the vehicle manufacturer can void the emissions warranties is if an aftermarket part is responsible for (causes) the warranty claim.

If the dealer continues to deny your warranty claim, here are some steps to take to get it remedied:
http://www.sema.org/content/?id=22237

[JasonAccord98LX]

Thanks a lot fritz, that is just what i was looking for.

[94civic]

Originally posted by JasonAccord98LX
I would buy a used one anyway, but that would still run me 200 or so.

i think it's illegal to buy a used converter, but i'm not sure so correct me if i'm wrong

[JasonAccord98LX]

Well fellas, thanks to all of your help my situation with the cataytic converter has been resolved. I printed off that sema webpage that fritz posted for me and and gave the dealership a call. At the first mention of "clean air act", the guy on the phone was like "oh YEAH, i guess we CAN do it for free". The just suddenly "realized" that it was warranteed after all. Dishonest bastards. So after I gave them shit about not coming clean about it in the first place and telling me that it would cost me 700 bucks, I drove it there and they fixed it. Absolutely no charge either. This all makes me especially proud to be a part of AF. Now I can tell my parents that its ok for me to spend hours upon hours on here. I can just tell them that AF saved me 700 bucks Thanks to all who helped, especially good old fritz.

[Someguy]

Awesome. I'm glad it worked out for you. I hate it when dealers try to screw people like that.

[fritz_269]

Originally posted by Someguy
Awesome. I'm glad it worked out for you. I hate it when dealers try to screw people like that.

Pisses me off too.

Sounds like they f*ckin knew about it, and were just trying to scam you. If you have a choice, I would never go to that dealer from now on, and I'd encourage you to let all your friends and community know what happened as well.

Trying to scam folks like that has to be bad for their business, otherwise they'll never stop.