Zonda v.s. SL65 AMG

[V8slayer]

As I understand, you can get the SL65 AMG for under 150,000 pounds. The Zonda Pagani C12S is about 300,000 pounds. Now Merc have just planned the release of 675bhp, and 1000Nm SL69.

I don't think the Zonda is pointless. A 1250kg carbon fibre supercar is never pointless. But is it worth that much more than the Mercs? And is the day to day running of it a pain in the backside compared to the Mercs?

Lastly, howcome Zonda, who uses an AMG engine doesn't get a new one? If I'm going to pay that much for a car, I'd want it's engine to be at least the best of its series.

Because believe it or not, 550bhp just doesn't cut it anymore for a supercar. I don't care what people say about too much horse power, too many electronic aids and getting back to basics. Part of the supercar is bragging rights. And come on, not many supercar owners can fully exploit their car's performance. So the power output and performance figures are what the bragging centres around.

The Zonda is a great car. But if it rests on its laurels, it might just find there no market for it anymore.

[VQuick]

The normally aspirated AMG V12 in the Zonda works just fine. Horatio Pagani actually looked to the McLaren F1 for inspiration. Gordon Murray said how Pagani came up to him, saying how he tried to keep the Zonda simple like the F1. Simple means no forced induction. It's just more stuff that can break down. With turbos, you have lag. Superchargers give parasitic drag. Both give you more heat to worry about.

The Zonda is just fine when it comes to performance figures, especially when you consider it's a few years old. It's still faster than the SL65, and even the McMerc SLR.

When the Zonda was released, it was pretty much the anti-establishment supercar. It was fast, powerful, stylish, relatively luxurious, and something of a bargain compared to other supercars. It's still one of the better ones out there.

[TatII]

the Zonda S is probrably the best looking super car out today. it looks like no other. that should be more then enough reason to by it over any SL class benz.

[crayzayjay]

Changed the title to make it a little clearer which AMG offering you're comparing the Zonda to.

And to answer your question, the Zonda will go down in history as a magnificent supercar that rocked the establishment. The SL 65 AMG will go down in history as a pimpmobile. Is the Zonda worth the premium? Without a shadow of a doubt.

[christophv]

a zonda will always be more radical and it will always feel more like a real sportscar... mostly because of it's "purity" and "rigorousness", if you can say so.

I say a car with like 400hp - and 500kg would be one ass-whipping supercar, it's not in the flat numbers, it's in the "ratios"

only a big, clean engine, uncomfortable seats and a tube frame covered with carbon fibre. my supersportscar ideal

...

no doubt the SL69 sets new standards to luxury sports vehicles.

[Neutrino]

The main reason that the SL65 makes the zonda look weak (engine wise) is because of the turbos. And kudos to merc that they use them. It seems so many people got the BMW no turbos policy its sad considering all their advantages (load determined powerband, higher thermal efficiency, much higher reliability on very high specifuc output engines etc..). And most supercar and exotic car companies got the same attitude recently, probably due to customer demand.


And please lets not hear about lag, especially when we are talking about a car like the SL65. That car pulls like a diesel.

Btw i'm quite excited that it seems Chrysler will build its ME 4-12 using that SL65 engine. That brilliant engine deserves more than a luxury car platform They already have a full working prototype as seen in the last Motor Trend.

[Jimster]

The Zonda is the template for supercars, it's built in double digit quantities each year and is beautifully styled and built and finished with a Carbon Fibre body.

The SL65 AMG is a footballers wives car with a couple of snails bolted on, Rachel Hunter drives one, 'nuff said.

[finally_retired]

Footballers wives! Whatever... gross stereotype! As is pimp mobile.

I brought mine because its astonishing. In the time it would take your average 2 litre hatch to overtake a car traveling at 60mph, mine can take 8, and have slowed back down to 60mph at the head of the pack.

Turbo Lag doesn't exist on this car, which makes it lightening quick in its response to throttle in/decrease, and it handles beutifuly on british roads, which is more than can be said for other supercars that demand a much higher premium.

I wouldn't want the Zonda, because it would break my back if I hit a cats eye, sharp connering would leave my spline on the passanger seat, and I would be positively exhausted after a lengthy drive in one.

The only modern supercar that I have ever considerd buying is one that I test drove 6 weeks ago. That was a Koenigsegg CC. That was a userfriendly car. Not like the Zonda. The clutch is light, the gears are swift and precise, and it's 4.7 V8 is as happy at around town speeds as it is at tarmac shreadding speeds. Not only that, but the doors alone would keep me entertained for weeks!

This is a stupid comparison anyway. The SL is a grand tourer. Not a Super/Hypercar. Its like comparing an Audi A4 avant to a Mazda MX-5 or something... Totally different cars.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by finally_retired

Footballers wives! Whatever... gross stereotype! As is pimp mobile.

Hehe, now you see how we tifosi felt when you used stereotypes for our Ferraris.

Originally Posted by finally_retired

The only modern supercar that I have ever considerd buying is one that I test drove 6 weeks ago. That was a Koenigsegg CC. That was a userfriendly car. Not like the Zonda. The clutch is light, the gears are swift and precise, and it's 4.7 V8 is as happy at around town speeds as it is at tarmac shreadding speeds. Not only that, but the doors alone would keep me entertained for weeks!

Hmmm...that is the complete opposite of what testers say. Clarkson said about the Koenigsegg:

the clutch is heavy, the steering is heavy, the gearbox is heavy....you can drive to the gym in this thing then turn around head back straight home and had more exercise that if you've done a workout

while tiff Needell from 5th Gear claims about the Zonda:

the steering is light but responsive, the ride firm but rewarding, the chassis is not unssetled by the odd camber or bump, I can't believe what a sophisticated car this is

both quotes are exact, since i have both videos and I have reviewed them to isnure accuracy.

[finally_retired]

I know that, but I've owned 4 Ferrari's and was a big fan in the past, so I think that qualifies me to critisise the car or the manufacturer as much as I wish. Especially after I make the effort to go and look at their new modles and test drive them for myself.

When you get to my age, (69 yesterday...) you cant help but compare old with new. Its the way it works.

I've driven a Zonda C12 (not the "S") version, and didn't find it light or user friendly at all. I've driven a CC and found it quite pleasurable. I drove them, and thats how I felt aftewards.

You can't really base your oppinions on what somebody else says on a video, when you are talking to someone with first hand experiance. So my decision still stands, regardless of what motoring jounalist's think.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by finally_retired

I know that, but I've owned 4 Ferrari's and was a big fan in the past, so I think that qualifies me to critisise the car or the manufacturer as much as I wish. Especially after I make the effort to go and look at their new modles and test drive them for myself.

No. What you did was stereotype the Ferrari owners; however, you jumped when Jimster did the same to the merc sl. And you'll forgive me if I reserve a dose of cynicism, afterall the only proof of car ownership you provided was proven to be fake.

Originally Posted by finally_retired

You can't really base your oppinions on what somebody else says on a video, when you are talking to someone with first hand experiance. So my decision still stands, regardless of what motoring jounalist's think.

And again you'll forgive me if I trust the word of two of the most famous car reviewers. One of them being a former F1 and LeMans driver.

[crayzayjay]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

And you'll forgive me if I reserve a dose of cynicism, afterall the only proof of car ownership you provided was proven to be fake.

Perfectly understandable. Besides, your profile (before you changed it) wasnt one of a 69 yr old man! And what's "Cheltnam"? Surely you know how to spell the place where you live, Cheltenham?? Like Neutrino says, forgive the cynicism. Put up some pics of the cars you own with, i dont know, "i love AF" written on a piece of paper and you'll never hear a word about it again. And since you're fine with having your name and details on the web, why not a pic of you as well?

[V8slayer]

I think I understand now where Finally_Retired is coming from.

A lot of old cops rave about six shooters when the Glocks are clearly superior in every way.

So called Basketball "PURISTS" (usually old guys) say that the atheletes of today can't compare to the ones in the sixties and seventies. But clearly the players today are bigger, faster stronger, and more skilled.

For these people, older always means better.

Anyway, quick question:

All predjudice aside, would the Zonda have better performance if it had the SL65 AMG's engine?

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by V8slayer

All predjudice aside, would the Zonda have better performance if it had the SL65 AMG's engine?

I would say yes. Just look at the Chrysler ME 4-12 its a supercar with the SL65 engine. However it might lose some of that exotic high revving engine scream.

[V8slayer]

Why, when almost every report I've read raves about the F40, do people now days relate supercars with high revving NA engines only?

I love high revving NA engines. But a little variety wouldn't go astray. Even if only to have something to compare to.