Big Problems? Wet Cylinders!

[ddpierson]

I have a 1998 PONT BONN 3800 series II....Sunday as we were driving home my heater quit working and started blowing cold air. My husband checked the antifreeze and it was low. He filled it up. Took it out for a drive and the check engine light came on. He shut it down immediately (engine did not overheat), but the radiator was empty again. Upon removing the spark plugs they were ALL wet! (Yes all six) There was also a drip near the intake. He is thinking the intake gasket blew. Does this sound right? What are the odds of permanent damage? Is there anything else this could be other than the gasket? Any suggestions?

Thanks
Deb

[kzimmer30]

Ugh. I am going through a similar situation with my 99. What I thought was a bad head gasket turned out to be a bad upper intake manifold. That's the plastic one. Coolant is routed through the upper manifold and zips through a small cavity in the throttle body. Between the intake/return passage in the manifold is port (vacuum/air?) Mine internally deteriorated and the coolant was forced into the incoming air. Flooding the cylinders and just about everything with coolant. Unfortunately there is so much coolant in my engine oil passages I am looking at a minor rebuild. Since your bonnie is still running, it may not be that bad yet. I would do a very thorough inspection of the upper manifold coolant passage. Try to force water through both sides and see if water comes out the air port. It is possible the gasket around these passage are bad and water is seeping into and out of the manifold. It could also end up being a bad head gasket. (Quoted 1500 bucks, parts alone is about 350-500). But if you remove the upper manifold and there is coolant everywhere, it is most likely that plastic manifold, or gasket. I bought a new manifold from the dealer (250) and guess what? They had 5 in stock, but they didn't stock a single head gasket kit, maybe that says something...
If this is the problem make sure to change the oil before start up, and I would let it get to operating temp. and change it again.

[ddpierson]

Hubby ordered a new manifold today. $160.00 from NAPA. They were very aware of the problem. Even had pictures of trouble areas. He wants to know what is up with the "HIDDEN BOLTS" message on top of the manifold? Is there bolts there that he can't see? Is there a trick to removing them?

[playguy]

the hidden bolt thing means just what it says, there's bolts under the plastic air plenum that need to come out in order to remove the lower aluminum intake manifold. this shouldn't be necessary unless the end seals of lower intake are leaking. if they are FIX IT NOW, it will only get worse. your coolent problem is more than likly the upper air plenum coolent passage around the EGR passage near the throtle body. the problem stems from there not being enough clearance between the EGR tube and the plastic surounding it causing the hi temp of the exhaust gas to soften and weaken the plastic to the point of allowing the preasure of the cooling system to break through allowing coolent into the air stream into the engine. there is a smaller diameter after market
EGR tube available(the base where it fits into the lower intake is the same size but the upper portion is turned down thus providing more air clearence between it and the plastic). I feel this should be done if you plan on keeping the car for an extended time. btw, GM's fix is to sell you a new lower intake with a smaller hole for a smaller EGR tube PLUS the upper air plenum, about $600.00 worth PLUS labor!!!!!!!! Your valve covers should be resealed at this time as well. Hope this all helps someone.






egr tube

[usmcsgtj]

Seriously replace the lower and upper manifolds, If you dont replace both its only a matter of time till the second one goes, This is a huge prob for non suopercharged 3800. GM's replacement parts are a different design that do not warp(which is why they leak). Also, you should use the GM gasket, it is a stronger design, I highly recommend GM parts for this fix, im not so sure an aftermarket would address the inherent problem in the original design. For everyones piece of mind, The problem with the upper and lower manifolds and gasket in these engines is that the design is flawed and over time the weak aluminum parts warp, causing coolant to leak into the engine. GM found the problem after every non supercharged one they sold came in for this repair . It is not a recall repair as some people suggest, as the problem was found far after most warranties and such were up. It is a fairly expensive fix, but the new style manifolds are much stronger and so far cause no problems.