What the HECK: bad Water pump, head gasket...97 Lumina

[rosenbarn]

I really hope somebody can help me out with this one. Getting ready to take the car to the shop tomorrow evening, and I think I'm getting ripped off. Here's the problem. I have a 97 Chevrolet Lumina 110,000+ miles on it. No problems. Normal driving, come to a stop, get off the highway, steam rolls out under the hood. No overheating on the guage, or bubbling over in the radiator or resevoir. Park the car, I see small drips under the car appearantly coming from somewhere under the top hose, but can't really see for sure. Antifreeze was a little low. Add distilled water, park, same thing going home. So I flush the radiator, bleed the valves, refill, (I didn't check the thermostat--gets plenty of heat and shuts off alright). I let it sit in park for 30 minutes, and again, no overheating, no drips, no problem. Get on the highway and it's the same old thing. This time I've lost quite a bit of coolant, and it seems to come out from somewhere on the driver side around the top of the motor. A guy from the shop said it sounds like the intake manifold or head gasket. BUT there's no oil or air bubbling in the resevoir or any appearance of water or sludge in the oil case. Oil levels are fine, oil looks good. It's going to cost 900+ to fix it if I go ahead and let the guy fix it. If anybody has any idea, PLEASE let me know.

[richtazz]

there is a hose nipple in the intake just behind and below the t-stat housing. These can deteriorate with age and crack. Many times they will only leak under high pressure, like after a long drive. IF the coolant is leaking from the drivers side of the engine, that's where i would look first.

[rosenbarn]

Is the thermostat on the drivers side of the car? I thought it was in the same area as the water pump. The water pump IS on the passenger side, isn't it? Is it likely that a hose needs to be replaced, or is it a nipple (plastic or metal) that would have to be taken off? The longer I drive the car, the heavier the dripping seems to be. And it is always seems to be wet in that same area (down the side of the motor, down the frame, and is always a wet stream just a few inches to the left of the oil filter. Does this sound about right?

[meistermind]

Richtazz is correct. There is a small (1/2 - 3/4") metal cooling line coming from around the back of the engine and it pushes into a snap-in style connector just below the area of the T-stat housing. The t-stat housing will be located at the end of the large upper radiator hose where it joins to the engine.

These snap-in nipple style connectors can leak slighty after time if the sealing o-ring around the metal tube deteriorates or if the metal tube pops back out of the connecter latches. You can push the metal cooling tube in more firmly to make sure it is completely seated and latched, and/or pull it out and replace the o-ring. For these situations, sometimes a small container of radiator Alumi-seal in the coolant will save you alot of work or money- I would try this first. Unless the pipe is cracked/ broken.

You will see a lot more steam from this leaky scenario because if you look closely, you will see this cooling line runs directly over the toip of the exhaust manifold connector pipe. As the engine gets hot and water drips on it, even a little- you have instant steam. Whereas normally a small leak would just run down the engine and you wouldn't notice it so much until it got severe. This kind of leak will appear much worse than it is.

[richtazz]

the t-stat is on the drivers side. Follow the upper hose back to the engine, and you found it. The hose nipple I mentioned is just behind(toward back of car) and under (closer to the ground) the t-stat housing. The nipple is made of cast, the intake of aluminum, and the two cause a chemical reaction that weakens the nipple. It sounds like this could be your cause, as the coolant is leaking down the block, following the oil pan rail, and then hitting the ground. IF there is no coolant in the oil, or oil in the coolant, it's not an intake leak.

[jeffcoslacker]

Isn't there a small coolant line that goes to the throttle body too? Or is that what you guys are talking about?

[rosenbarn]

I just called my so-far trusty Adv**** Auto guy (who used to work on cars for a living) and he said a sure fire way to tell if you have a leak in the manifold or head gasket, is that you would find there is steam coming out of your tail pipe in most cases after it's been running for a while. Does this make sense? If it does, then I've noticed alot of other people out there who seem to have the same blasted problem could consider that idea as well.

[jeffcoslacker]

Not always the case. Sometimes coolant is drawn into the combustion chambers and burned, sometimes not enough to notice. It wouldn't be leaking internally AND externally, and still running fine. I agree with the others, you've got some fitting or bypass leaking, more than likely.

[rosenbarn]

Thanks for the input. I'm definitley going to look around good before I do (and if) I turn it over to a mechanic for something major. I guess it would have to eventually be done though, wouldn't it? Seems like everybody else has intake manifold or head gasket work done around 100k miles.

[jeffcoslacker]

Take a small mirror with you. Can be very revealing, to be able to see from angles you can't normally. I bet you find it.

[meistermind]

Newr cars naturally have "steam"coming from the tail pipe until they warm up (up to 30 minutes) and will always be slightly apparent when accelerating. Newer efficient engines extract moisture from the incoming air.

The key is to know what is normal. If it is a gasket leak. then typically the steam will continue to increase in volume as the car warms up- since the pressure in the cooling system helsp push more coolant into the cylinder.

[alex-sweden]

have er tips

[richtazz]

steam when you start the car is moisture burning out of the converter (water is a by-product of the catalyst reaction) which is perfectly normal. If the car continues to steam after it's warmed up, that is a sign of possible trouble. Also, a coolant leak escaping into the exhaust will have a sweet smell to it.

[rosenbarn]

Thanks. Makes alot of sense about it smelling sweet (after flushing out the radiator, I've figured out why animals like to drink it!!)

[richtazz]

no problem , good luck, and keep us informed as to what you find.