Need Your Help....PLEASE

[Volfan]

My wife got laid off from her job about six months ago, and she is expecting a baby in June. That much worked out about right. However, things are going to be a little tighter than our usual six-figure family income until she decides to go back to work. I discovered that we have a major automotive problem this afternoon. I'll explain the problem, and maybe some of you could advise me, especially those of you with lots of automotive experience.

Our second car is a 1992 Honda Civic 4-door sedan. We bought it new right off the Honda lot in 1992. We know for sure that it was manufactured in Japan because the delivery prep involved getting rid of a coating they put on the cars to protect them from sea salt when they are shipped by ocean freighter to the United States. We have treated this car like a baby all of its life, especially on oil changes and so forth. To the best of my knowledge, the car has never overheated or been subjected to incredible engine stress.

Okay. Here's the deal. We noticed that the car engine would sometimes die at a traffic light stop when the air conditioner was running, especially if we were stopped on a sloped surface. We sent it to the shop a couple of times, and they did the usual timing adjustments and a tune up. This helped some but the problem persisted. So, we sent it back to the shop today with instructions to try it out on steep hills. They noticed that the car was pulling hills rather slowly. So they took the car back to the shop and did a compression test on each cylinder. It is supposed to have about 160 lbs of compression in each cylinder. The test revealed that two of the cylinders only have 20 lbs of compression. One cylinder has about 160 lbs, and the final one has about 120 lbs of compression. In short, our old car "ain't got much power." The hypothesis is this. The extra strain of the air conditioner combined with the power needed to pull a steep hill from a dead stop overwhelms the engine and causes it to die. The car has 176,000 miles on it right now, and I have a sworn personal desire to drive it until 200,000 miles.

Now, here is where you can help. I would like to drive this car another couple of years. Our Honda dealer suggested doing an engine overhaul in their shop to restore the compression. The price tag would be about $1700. He says they do only two or three jobs like this every year, but all of the ones they have done have worked out great---no owner problems. Apparently, they tear the engine down to look at certain criteria and if the old engine meets those criteria, they feel safe in going ahead with the overhaul---if not---they abort.

There are other considerations here. It is an old car. It has some other things wrong with it (needs a new speedometer for $400.00, a new radio/tape deck (can do cheap replacemment at Wal-Mart), and it is due for a timing belt change, which usually entails new grease boots ($600). There is also a pinhole leak of power steering fluid. The leak is extremely small, several years old, and the dealer has consistently advised us to just check it every once in a while and fill the fluid. Replacing the steering assembly is the only way to fix it, and this would cost about $1000. As long as the leak gets no larger, which hasn't happened yet, the dealer says he wouldn't worry with fixing it.

Okay. Let me tell you about our old Datsun 510 that we had in college when we were newly married and damn near broke. My wife bought it used before we were married. Unfortunately, I think this used car had probably been "laundered" in the infamous shops of Cleveland, Tennessee (consult past reports about Cleveland on "60 Minutes"). I think the odometer had about 60,000 miles on it when she bought it, and I would guess that the mileage had been run back from somewhere over 100,000. Well, not long after she bought it, the engine died---and under circumstances where the engine was under a lot of heat stress. We tried an engine overhaul with it, but it did not work---lost our money. We then tried replacing the engine with an overhauled engine from another old 510. That didn't work either. So, we got burned on the overhaul route a second time. In short, we have had bad luck in our past with engine overhauls.

You also need to bear this in mind. Both times we were trying to do an overhaul on a car with a dubious history---starting out with bad material as a basis for the overhaul. That would not be the case this time because we are the only owners our Honda Civic has ever had, and we have taken really good care of it. Also, on those other overhauls that didn't work, a major dealership did not do them. We got a couple of old country grease monkies to do it. So, these overhauls may as well have been done by "The Three Stooges." In fact, I later learned from a mutual friend that one of these guys had a bad reputation and a history of dishonesty in his dealings with customers. So, there is not telling what they did with those overhauls that didn't work out on the old Datsun.

What would you do in my circumstances? Would you try the suggested dealership overhaul in hopes of getting a couple of more years out of our car? OR

Would you take a major hit on your rainy day savings account with one person unemployed and a baby on the way---and buy a brand new car?


By the way, I posted this message on a couple of nonautomotive boards and got back lots of responses---none of which really answered my question. However, I did get one nearly universal response. "Nobody with children they want to keep safe should be riding them around in a compact car like a Honda Civic" Whay do you think?



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[kris]

Hmmmm. Well, consider your self lucky for one, being able to have a nice 6 figure income. Dont take this the wrong way, but coming from a 6 figure salary, you should be able to fix your civic up good. What you should do, is screw the $tealer. They are not that great price wise. You could for instance, find a local tuning shop. Not the kind that does normal everyday mechanic work, because they tend to charge like a $stealer would. Find a speed shop, one that caters towards motor swaps. Get there background. Talk to previous customers, etc., etc. You can get a low mileage motor for fairly cheap. I purchased a SOHC Vtec motor, with 30k on it, for $450. That was complete from top, to bottom. Get the swap done. It would probably cost you $700-$800 for a very good, well tuned up, motor swap. That kills a few birds with one stone right there. Timing belt should be good, compression is great. What concerns me is, why do they need to replace the whole steering assembly just for a leak? That seams kind of outragous. Also, what part of the speedo needs to be fixed? A new speedo cable should be like $50, then an hour at the most swapping them out. If its the whole cluster, swap it out with one off eBay, cost you maybe $100. All in all. Give up your loyalty to the $stealer, they are crooks. Your car isnt under warranty anymore, so dont get work done there. Well, I guess for 6 figures, the $tealer could be affordable. Also, doing the swap yourself isnt all that hard. Go down and buy a chilton manual, spend the week, and bond with your car. Thats how I did my first swap. Everything ran just fine.

[JD@af]

But I agree with Kris 100%. Don't overhaul that engine for $1,700. That's a small D series single cam motor. It's barely worth $1,700 brand spanking new. A much better bet is finding a much newer D series single cam motor, ODB-1 (that's the generation of engine computer that your 1992 Civic runs on), and purchasing that. These are usually sold pretty cheap, as the gearheads that like to buy Honda engines and run with them usually go for B and H series DOHC engines - and they often swap out smaller D series single cam engines like the one in your Civic; so, you should really be able to get a good deal on one.

And I would highly recommend not researching a new engine through your dealer, unless you really want to pay an amr and a leg when you can get away with just a couple fingers, really. Try calling this number (1-800-338-SOKO (7656)) and talking to them (about engines - tell them your Civic trim line and check if they have any motors for you - but remember that ANY ODB-1 Civic motor - even a DOHC B16A - will work just fine) - see if they can help.

[94civic b16]

get rid of the car its not really worth much so your never going to get it back out of it so sell it take the loss and buy a car with less miles

[sideshowrich]

Dude, why the hell are you digging up all these old threads?