No Oil Pressure

[gpwhite7]

Hi,

I've got a 1996 windstar and recently got it out of the shop 6 months ago no oil pressure. The mechanic said that the oil pickup screen was completely clogged and the pressure relief valve was sticking. He cleaned everything but didn't replace anything. The bill was $450. He said that it could happen again but I wasn't expecting it so soon. It worked for about 2 months and the engine shut off for no oil pressure again. We had it towed to the house and the engine may be still good. But when you start it, there is "no oil" being pumped. I took the oil filler cap off and looked inside the engine. It is dry in there. I drained all the oil out and changed the filter and refilled with oil. It has the same problem.

Does anyone know what could be the problem? I am in the process of taking off the oil pan to look. But the hurricane has put that on hold for now.

I would appreciate any troubleshooting ideas on what I need to troubleshoot/change. I am tired of paying mechanics for this kind of service and am trying to fix it. Please help

Greg

[12Ounce]

I've never dropped the oil pan on my '99 3.8L Winnie, but have had the intake manifold off. At 93 kmiles, I was very impressed with its internal cleanliness. I accredit this to an (perhaps "over") energetic PCV system. I wonder what the your oil pump inlet screen was "clogged" with? Was it crud or metal?

Whatever it was, perhaps some of it lodged in the pressure relief valve permanently keeping it open. The relief spring may also be broken.

If the engine didn't get noisy, I would make sure the oil pressure switch isn't "lying".

If the inside of the block looks OK, I would still not trust the pump again -- even if cleaned/repaired. It is a good practice to replace with a new (aftermarket?) pump during any shortblock work. Be sure to put several drops of oil in the new pump. Be sure to try twisting the lower end of the pump drive shaft to make sure its not broken between the cam shaft and pump. (I'm assuming the pump is driven by the cam on this engine and not by the timing chain.)

It is also a good practice, after buttoning up the short block and filling with oil, to lift the pump's regular drive shaft out -- and using a special temp shaft, drive the oil pump with an elect drill. This wets the engine internals with oil before turning the engine over. Unfortunately, it also requires retiming the cam sensor for proper fuel timing.

An alternate practice, that is fairly good, is to just remove all spark plugs and crank the engine 'till the pump and oil arteries are well primed.

[rodeo02]

Isn't the oil pump built into the aluminum timing chain cover on the 3.8L? It's a funky "external design" pump. IIRC- they had problems with sticking press relief valves on certain years. That usually resulted in exploding oil filters on a cold start though .
G/luck
Joel

[12Ounce]

On my '99 3.8L the oil pump is indeed external and on the bottom of the front cover, held by 6 bolts.

But is this the arrangement on the '96 ? I'm not sure.

The '99 3.0L apparently has the pump inside the oil pan against the block bottom.

[gpwhite7]

The mechanic said that it was clogged with "crud". And the oil pressure switch is telling the truth. The engine is getting noisy and there is no visible oil flowing, as seen through the oil filler cap.

What would be my best bet to change. The pressure relief valve, which was sticking when the real mechanic worked on it, or the oil pump which he said was working great when he spun it with a drill motor / OR BOTH?

Thanks for the help!

Greg

[12Ounce]

Most pressure relief valves these days are built in the pump unit. I would replace the whole unit. I don't think the aftermarket units cost that much.

Be sure to check the pump drive shaft. They do break from time to time.

By the way, is your engine a 3.8? Is the pump in the oil pan?

[gpwhite7]

Yes, it is a 3.8L 6 cylinder and I will let you know later on the oil pump location. I am not sure yet, but will get back into it this weekend.

Thanks,
Greg

[12Ounce]

If you have the chance you may want to stop by a Ford parts counter and ask for a print-out of the engine exploded view, for your particular model, showing the oil pump. It will be a good thing to have as you start your disassembly.

I'm never too proud to do this. These parts views often have info that even the shop manual doesn't have.

[gpwhite7]

How much does Ford charge for a print out of the engine? I planned on buying the parts from Autozone or Advance, not from Ford.

If I decide to do this job myself, can someone here "walk" me through any problems or questions I might have. My specialty is working on electronic circuitry, not mechanics. I am just tired of the service I am getting from the "real" mechanics.

Thanks!!!

[12Ounce]

There should be no charge for the (8 1/2 x 11) print-out that shows part nos, etc. While there, ask for pricing on the oil pump .. you may find Ford not that expensive .. on some rare occasions, I find Ford actually lower priced.

I'm sure there are many who will step in with info if they have it. I will also try if I can. But this weekend I will be off-line for several days.

[gpwhite7]

Well, I called FORD today to check on prices for the oil pump/PRV. They said it was one unit and was part of the front timing cover. It cost $189.

How hard is this going to be to change in that location? Does anybody know what all has to come off to get the front timing cover off? And when it is off, how hard to change out? Should a DIY'er with not too much experience try it?

Thanks alot for all the past advice! I am listening and learning!

Greg

[12Ounce]

The Ford folks may be exactly right .. or they may be full of it.

If I get a chance I'll do some research tomorrow. But I don't know what engine we're talking about? Is it the 3.8 or 3.0? What is the build date of your car ... this date will be on the VIN plate. Get this back to me tonight.

[gpwhite7]

OK

I've got a 3.8 Liter Windstar with a manufactured of September 1996

Thanks alot for your time and continuing on with this problem!

Greg

[wiswind]

Go to Autozone's free repair information.....
Engine overhaul and repair....
Select Oil Pump replacement......
Scroll down past the 3.0L engine to read the 3.8L engine.
They make it look easy..... I have never done this...but there is not a lot of room down there.

www.autozone.com

[12Ounce]

My morning walk and coffee outing takes me near a Ford dealership ... and I needed to get an update on all the part sellers' war stories.

Since your vehicle has a Sept '96 date, they call it a '97. The layout of the oil pump etc is the same as my '99. The alum piece that the oil filter screws onto... is the oil pump. 6 bolts.

I picked up two print-outs that you would want:
"1997 TW (Windstar)/60 Engine/6cyl.3.8L/Oil Pump"
and;
"1997 TW (Windstar)/103-Alternator, Instrument Cluster, Battery/SYNCRONIZER/6CYL. 3.0L" ........I can't explain the title reference to 3.0, but the sketch shows currect part numbers for a 3.8..???????

The oil pump is Ford part #6603. The shop manual says the removal of the oil pump is a "in vehicle repair" .. good news! I was quoted $130 from Ford as price of pump. Apparently however, the 3-part (piston, screen, spring) oil pressure relief valve is part of the balance of the front cover, not part of the Ford oil pump ... bad news!

NAPA sells a Clevite oil pump #6012084 for $126 ... it includes the pressure relief valve... good news! By the way, the press relief valve is held in place, up in the front cover, by the oil pump.

While visiting with Ford, they shared with me that they sell several synchronizers (#12A362) as repair parts. This is not good news. They had no good idea of what is failing, but I'm guessing if the bottom of the synchro unit end is failing... there goes oil pressure.

If you have a Fax number, I can send you some sketches. But it's gotta happen before late morning tomorrow.

Good luck.