hrmm

[lazysmurff]

http://www.juancole.com/2004_09_01_j...82366638394688

Wednesday, September 22, 2004
If America were Iraq, What would it be Like?

President Bush said Tuesday that the Iraqis are refuting the pessimists and implied that things are improving in that country.

What would America look like if it were in Iraq's current situation? The population of the US is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.

Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on September 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

And what if those deaths occurred all over the country, including in the capital of Washington, DC, but mainly above the Mason Dixon line, in Boston, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, and San Francisco?

What if the grounds of the White House and the government buildings near the Mall were constantly taking mortar fire? What if almost nobody in the State Department at Foggy Bottom, the White House, or the Pentagon dared venture out of their buildings, and considered it dangerous to go over to Crystal City or Alexandria?

What if all the reporters for all the major television and print media were trapped in five-star hotels in Washington, DC and New York, unable to move more than a few blocks safely, and dependent on stringers to know what was happening in Oklahoma City and St. Louis? What if the only time they ventured into the Midwest was if they could be embedded in Army or National Guard units?

There are estimated to be some 25,000 guerrillas in Iraq engaged in concerted acts of violence. What if there were private armies totalling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country? What if they completely controlled Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Denver and Omaha, such that local police and Federal troops could not go into those cities?

What if, during the past year, the Secretary of State (Aqilah Hashemi), the President (Izzedine Salim), and the Attorney General (Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim) had all been assassinated?

What if all the cities in the US were wracked by a crime wave, with thousands of murders, kidnappings, burglaries, and carjackings in every major city every year?

What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs", but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

What if, from time to time, the US Army besieged Virginia Beach, killing hundreds of armed members of the Christian Soldiers? What if entire platoons of the Christian Soldiers militia holed up in Arlington National Cemetery, and were bombarded by US Air Force warplanes daily, destroying thousands of graves and pulverizing the Vietnam Memorial? What if the National Council of Churches had to call for a popular march of thousands of believers to converge on the National Cathedral to stop the US Army from demolishing it to get at a rogue band of the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Brigades?

What if there were virtually no commercial air traffic in the country? What if many roads were highly dangerous, especially Interstate 95 from Richmond to Washington, DC, and I-95 and I-91 up to Boston? If you got on I-95 anywhere along that over 500-mile stretch, you would risk being carjacked, kidnapped, or having your car sprayed with machine gun fire.

What if no one had electricity for much more than 10 hours a day, and often less? What if it went off at unpredictable times, causing factories to grind to a halt and air conditioning to fail in the middle of the summer in Houston and Miami? What if the Alaska pipeline were bombed and disabled at least monthly? What if unemployment hovered around 40%?

What if veterans of militia actions at Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing were brought in to run the government on the theory that you need a tough guy in these times of crisis?

What if municipal elections were cancelled and cliques close to the new "president" quietly installed in the statehouses as "governors?" What if several of these governors (especially of Montana and Wyoming) were assassinated soon after taking office or resigned when their children were taken hostage by guerrillas?

What if the leader of the European Union maintained that the citizens of the United States are, under these conditions, refuting pessimism and that freedom and democracy are just around the corner?

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there are about ten articles on the page the link is to. this is the first one. just found it interesting.

[Murco]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

http://www.juancole.com/2004_09_01_j...82366638394688

Wednesday, September 22, 2004
What if there were private armies totalling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country?

Wow, at least he differentiates between "assault rifles" and "machine guns". Most liberals would have us believe they are the same...
Anyways, there's a lot of strong assumptions being made here and a lot of milita paranoia. Well, he is from Michigan - headquarters for America's militia movement.
Overall, dumb conjecture...

[YogsVR4]

Everyone loves playing the "what if" game.

[Raz_Kaz]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Everyone loves playing the "what if" game.

Yea! Like, what if Iraq had some WMD and what if they tried to use it on America?

[RedLightning]

technicly assualt rifles were legal before the ban went bye bye, becuase to be an assualt rifle it could not have an extendable stock, granade launcher, pistol grip, or bayonett(spelling?!) or more then a 10 round clip, but it could have i guess at least one of those, but now an "assualt rifle" can have all of those. Check out bushmaster.com i think they had stuff on it about the ban. oh and that story is quite interesting and funny.

[RSX-S777]

Originally Posted by Murco

Wow, at least he differentiates between "assault rifles" and "machine guns". Most liberals would have us believe they are the same...
Anyways, there's a lot of strong assumptions being made here and a lot of milita paranoia. Well, he is from Michigan - headquarters for America's militia movement.
Overall, dumb conjecture...

After spotting the phrase in your sig, I shall disregard anything you have to say...ever. You are an embarrassment...

And how the fuck is that bullshit acceptable in a public forum? What if my sig advocated killing all the blacks or the Jews? You have a serious deficiency.......urge to flame being repressed....

[2strokebloke]

And how the fuck is that bullshit acceptable in a public forum?

It's not. That's why he's been asked to remove it by the moderators.

[Tehvisseeus]

Wow there are a lot of saaumptions in that first post and most of them are based on completely baseless info

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by Tehvisseeus

Wow there are a lot of saaumptions in that first post and most of them are based on completely baseless info

I agree!
The US far far too many real social problems involving death and violence.
We really don't need to use conjecture. Just use the facts,
Such as:
*11,000 shooting deaths every year.

*Large portions of urban centers are unsafe for law-abiding citizens to walk around in, for fear of violence.

*Countless thousands of needless deaths every year because tax-paying citizens are denied basic, affordable medical care.

Lots of people in the rest of the civilized world are amazed that so many Americans find this acceptable and normal.

[Tehvisseeus]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

*11,000 shooting deaths every year.

Over half of these are gang related. While I do agree that this is a problem, it is one that we have been working on for a while and probably won't change any time soon. Plus sending in military would be an enormous mistake, so they will just have to stick with good ole cop work until they can find a better way of going about it.

Originally Posted by MagicRat

*Large portions of urban centers are unsafe for law-abiding citizens to walk around in, for fear of violence.

This too is mainly from gang vilence so just see my above post.

Originally Posted by MagicRat

*Countless thousands of needless deaths every year because tax-paying citizens are denied basic, affordable medical care.

While it would be nice to have cheap affordable healthcare, it would be impractical at this time. The countries with socialized health care have extremely long waits to get into the doctors office. Most Americans would not be able to deal with that. Also the costs to our treasury would be extreme if we went to socialized medical. If you can name a better idea then either what we have or socialized then I would love to hear it.

[lazysmurff]

you missed the idea of the article entirely...

[Flatrater]

And this coming from the Juan Cole who writes for Antiwar.com.

[Tehvisseeus]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

you missed the idea of the article entirely...

Ummm I was replying to your last post not the article.

[driftu]

Originally Posted by Tehvisseeus

Over half of these are gang related. While I do agree that this is a problem, it is one that we have been working on for a while and probably won't change any time soon. Plus sending in military would be an enormous mistake, so they will just have to stick with good ole cop work until they can find a better way of going about it.

so the question is now. why are they forming gangs?

[YogsVR4]

I'm sure some, because its what is 'cool' or whatever word is being used today. Popular culture praises it. Its doesn't take any will power or effort to join something as a follower. The natural tendancy for people is the lowest common denominator. Its always easier to blame someone else then to take responsibility for yourself.

I could go on, but I'm sure you have your own thoughts.