sq amps

[o61662]

I am looking for a nice full range sound quality amp. Mainly for some rear focal 6x9's and two Kapaa infinity 4x6's for the front. I was looking at the new audiobahn true digital purity amps and was wondering if anybodies heard if there's anything on them. But Hey, I'm up for some suggestions. thganks, Joe.

[Haibane]

audiobahn is not sq

[Brandish]

No such thing as an "SQ" amp. Power is power, and more is usually better. Better to buy a decent HU that gives you lots of control, ie HP and LP filters, eqs, sub control, etc etc.

[Haibane]

well, tube amps will give you a different sound then a standard amp

[sr20de4evr]

and so will a crappy amp, IMO a "sound quality" amp is simply a good amp. Reliable, retains the original signal, etc. And yes there are amps out there that follow this and there are also amps that don't. Many amps sound like shit, and it's not just because they don't put out much power.

[Phat_Jax]

Originally Posted by Brandish

No such thing as an "SQ" amp. Power is power, and more is usually better. Better to buy a decent HU that gives you lots of control, ie HP and LP filters, eqs, sub control, etc etc.

Do you really think that? Good god...

There is 'no such thing' as "power is power". Do you really think that your average D class amp has the same power or clarity at 4kHz as it does at 40Hz?

Different type of amp you say? Well okay, lets compare full-range AB circuit amps. Do you really think that the $50 swap meet 100Wrms x 4 full-range amp is that same power at every frequency with the same distortion levels?

There IS such a thing as a sq oriented amp, just like there is such a thing as a burping amp for spl competitions. A true sq amp focuses on having no power spikes throughout the full range of frequencies, as well as the lowest possible average distortion throughout the full range.

Just like a burping amp sacrifices these things (distortion and smooth power delivery), to peak like crazy in power around the 50-80Hz range for competition in spl.


I do however agree with your head unit point. The reciever is the 'trunk' of any system's 'tree' diagram. If the trunk of a tree is rotten the limbs won't be very healthy or strong...

[Brandish]

Originally Posted by Haibane

well, tube amps will give you a different sound then a standard amp

Tube amps sound different becase they tend to alter the input signal. A lot of people swear by their "warm" sound... whatever that means. A true amplifier shouldn't alter the output from the input in any way.

[Brandish]

Originally Posted by Phat_Jax

Do you really think that? Good god...

There is 'no such thing' as "power is power". Do you really think that your average D class amp has the same power or clarity at 4kHz as it does at 40Hz?

Of course not, but then class D amps initially were never designed to operate at frequencies over 150Hz, hence their use is normally restricted for subwoofers. I know there are full-range class D amps out there, and maybe we'll see more of them in the future... Who knows.

Originally Posted by Phat_Jax

Different type of amp you say? Well okay, lets compare full-range AB circuit amps. Do you really think that the $50 swap meet 100Wrms x 4 full-range amp is that same power at every frequency with the same distortion levels?

Doubtful, but many of those factors can be attributed to things outside of the actual amplifier ICs, such as crossovers, filters and whatnot. The point is not whether the differences are present, because they obviously are, but whether or not these differences are audible, and whether it's worth spending more money on a quote-unquote sound quality amp. If you take away crossovers and filters, you're left with a bare bones amp that does one thing: amplify an input signal.

Originally Posted by Phat_Jax

There IS such a thing as a sq oriented amp

I disagree. Ever heard of the Richard Clark $10,000 amp test? If not, I suggest you take a gander...

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showt...threadid=18815
http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimate...=022735#000000

A couple of threads relating to the test. To quote the most important part:

Twelve correct responses in a row is certainly a lot of correct listening but $10,000 is also a lot of money for a few hours of easy listening. The way people describe the differences is that they are like night and day. I would certainly not have any trouble choosing between an apple and an orange 12 times in a row. When compared fairly I believe the differences in amps are much too small to audibly detect and certainly too small to pay large sums of extra money for. If I am wrong someone should be able to carefully take this test and win my money. Even if I am right, if enough people take the test eventually someone will take my money due to random chance. This is the reason for the large sample requirement. If you feel that you can easily pass this test but 12 sequences will give you "listening fatigue" I am willing to modify the requirements. Since the way it is being offered is a challenge and only my money is at risk I am willing to let a confident challenger "put his money where his ears are". If we are willing to make this a bet instead of a challenge, I am willing to drop 1 sequence for every thousand dollars put up by the challenger against my money. This would mean:


____My___________ _ _Your________Trails Required to win__
$10,000 to $0 = 12 Tries
$9,000 to $1,000 = 11 Tries
$8,000 to $2,000 = 10 Tries
$7,000 to $3,000 = 9 Tries
$6,000 to $4,000 = 8 Tries
$5,000 to $5,000 = 7 Tries
$4,000 to $6,000 = 6 Tries

I will not do the test with less than 6 trails. It would be statistically meaningless and reduce the challenge to mere gambling.

Granted there's a TON of controversy over the test... But I find it quite entertaining and convincing.

Originally Posted by Phat_Jax

Just like a burping amp sacrifices these things (distortion and smooth power delivery), to peak like crazy in power around the 50-80Hz range for competition in spl.

I really don't follow the analogy... Sure, there are SPL-specific amps out there, but the differences between SPL amps and "normal" amps are much more pronounced than the differences between so-called "SQ" amps and "normal" amps. A modded amp that's designed to run on 18V and play sine waves for 3 seconds is certainly not designed to play music... But if you try to sell me a $1000 amp that is supposedly "SQ-oriented" over another amp with the same power ratings worth half of that, I'll kindly tell you to blow it out your arse. Now I'm not saying everyone should run Pyramid amps... That's just wrong, but like RC said, when buying an amp, buy reliability and power, not marketing BS.

Originally Posted by Phat_Jax

I do however agree with your head unit point. The reciever is the 'trunk' of any system's 'tree' diagram. If the trunk of a tree is rotten the limbs won't be very healthy or strong...

Well said. I'm a firm believer that any processing (if any) should be done either at the HU or an active crossover, light years before the signal hits the amp. No one wants to run from the front to the back of the car tinkering with filters and bass boosts...

[loismustdie]

Originally Posted by Brandish

Of course not, but then class D amps initially were never designed to operate at frequencies over 150Hz, hence their use is normally restricted for subwoofers. I know there are full-range class D amps out there, and maybe we'll see more of them in the future... Who knows.

Doubtful, but many of those factors can be attributed to things outside of the actual amplifier ICs, such as crossovers, filters and whatnot. The point is not whether the differences are present, because they obviously are, but whether or not these differences are audible, and whether it's worth spending more money on a quote-unquote sound quality amp. If you take away crossovers and filters, you're left with a bare bones amp that does one thing: amplify an input signal.

I disagree. Ever heard of the Richard Clark $10,000 amp test? If not, I suggest you take a gander...

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showt...threadid=18815
http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimate...=022735#000000

A couple of threads relating to the test. To quote the most important part:

Granted there's a TON of controversy over the test... But I find it quite entertaining and convincing.

I really don't follow the analogy... Sure, there are SPL-specific amps out there, but the differences between SPL amps and "normal" amps are much more pronounced than the differences between so-called "SQ" amps and "normal" amps. A modded amp that's designed to run on 18V and play sine waves for 3 seconds is certainly not designed to play music... But if you try to sell me a $1000 amp that is supposedly "SQ-oriented" over another amp with the same power ratings worth half of that, I'll kindly tell you to blow it out your arse. Now I'm not saying everyone should run Pyramid amps... That's just wrong, but like RC said, when buying an amp, buy reliability and power, not marketing BS.

Well said. I'm a firm believer that any processing (if any) should be done either at the HU or an active crossover, light years before the signal hits the amp. No one wants to run from the front to the back of the car tinkering with filters and bass boosts...

i think that ya'll are arguing different subjects, while someone wouldn't be able to tell a jl audio amp from a tru amp, you would be able to tell a legacy amp from a jbl amp. and you wouldn't have a very good sq system if all of your amps were class D.

[Phat_Jax]

Yeah, I wasn't arguing the price vs. benefit point Brandish...that's for sure...there's far too many people who spend more than they need to for something they can't hear.

I was just arguing the points on 'power is power' and that there isn't such a thing as an sq amp...then of course throwing my two cents in as well...


As for answering the initial question since I see I forgot to weigh in on that...

o61662...I would suggest you take a peek at the Memphis AB-circuit amplifier line. The MClass line of amps to be specific. I'm not sure if it's out of your price range or not, because I don't know what the Audio'bomb' amp sells for...I don't like a single product of theirs that I've heard to date to be honest.

The MClass full-range amps though are tough to beat for the money, clean and powerful, and a nice looking black-chromed aluminum chassis/heat sink to boot. Both of my cars are running them, an MC-3004 (75Wrms x 4) amp for the daily driver, and I'm running twelve modified MC-300 (150Wrms x 2 stock, ~504Wrms x 1 @4Ohm modified after testing) in my competition vehicle. They were good enough to get me several perfect/near perfect sq scores in UCSACi competition and an invite to world finals. (Couldn't go...damn college... )

There are a ton of amps out there that would do a good job for what you're wanting to do though...but you asked for an option so I'm giving you one to look into...

Good luck on your purchase!

[loismustdie]

Originally Posted by Phat_Jax

Yeah, I wasn't arguing the price vs. benefit point Brandish...that's for sure...there's far too many people who spend more than they need to for something they can't hear.

I was just arguing the points on 'power is power' and that there isn't such a thing as an sq amp...then of course throwing my two cents in as well...


As for answering the initial question since I see I forgot to weigh in on that...

o61662...I would suggest you take a peek at the Memphis AB-circuit amplifier line. The MClass line of amps to be specific. I'm not sure if it's out of your price range or not, because I don't know what the Audio'bomb' amp sells for...I don't like a single product of theirs that I've heard to date to be honest.

The MClass full-range amps though are tough to beat for the money, clean and powerful, and a nice looking black-chromed aluminum chassis/heat sink to boot. Both of my cars are running them, an MC-3004 (75Wrms x 4) amp for the daily driver, and I'm running twelve modified MC-300 (150Wrms x 2 stock, ~504Wrms x 1 @4Ohm modified after testing) in my competition vehicle. They were good enough to get me several perfect/near perfect sq scores in UCSACi competition and an invite to world finals. (Couldn't go...damn college... )

There are a ton of amps out there that would do a good job for what you're wanting to do though...but you asked for an option so I'm giving you one to look into...

Good luck on your purchase!

what speakers/subs are you running in your comp vehicle???

[Phat_Jax]

Originally Posted by loismustdie

what speakers/subs are you running in your comp vehicle???

Well, here's the lineup:

HU - Eclipse AV8533
EQ's - 2 Memphis EQ30's
X-over - (Old school) Audio Control 3xs with the old pop-in crossover chips (Hidden of course)
Amps - 12 modified Memphis MC-300's
Mids/Highs - 5 Memphis MS-8 8" point-source speakers...2 kicks ported to ~45 Hz, center 8" molded in the dash, and two for rear fill...
Subs - 8 Memphis HPO-12's Single 4 Ohm VC, ported to 28 Hz in a pac-man style wall.
Alt. - Ohio Generator 160Amp at idle
Batteries - 4 HC Power 2000CCA batteries for the rear with an isolator and a slightly larger battery up front.
All trim was done in grey heather tweed and grey vinyl with wiring from American Bass and RCA's from the old Lightning Audio TPX series.

Amps are done in two rows of waterfalls down the back hatch window with the heat sinks interlocking from row to row.


I'll see if I can scrounge some pics...I have all my book pics somewhere on hard copy, I'd just have to find them....

[snb778]

Rockford Fosgate db series, phoenix gold (gold series-discontinued) or Xtant will give you the best quality (xtant is probably the most efficient)

[CBFryman]

Originally Posted by Brandish

Tube amps sound different becase they tend to alter the input signal. A lot of people swear by their "warm" sound... whatever that means. A true amplifier shouldn't alter the output from the input in any way.

Tube amps give clean wattage. about as clean as you will get with out any power spikes from octave to octave. problem is the vacum tubes will also give a slight "humm" while idleing and will cause slight distortion to the sound. they are great for hard core rock set ups as the more low frequincy distortion you have the better rock seems to sound. IM IN NO WAY SAYING A TUBE AMP IS PURE SQ AMP. tube amps can be used if you have the cash. tube amps are for rich people who listen to rock. they arent good amps for powering subs (usually dont put out above 800w...and the 800w amps are usually 4 channel). Class D amps are great for the sub stage and class A/B are great for mids and highs and Tubes are great for midbass and highs. they also have great S/N ratings. 100+ dB, but yes they do give a cartian "warmth" to the music. its like turning on an old radio with that ever present 60Hz buzz in the back round. want to see some really nice (and expensive) Tube amps? check out these TruTech Copper Tube Series . wanna see some great Sub amplifiers? check out these TruTech Hammer Series .

[sr20de4evr]

actually tube amps do add distortion, just by the nature of how they work they are not sound quality amps. "sound quality" is really just preserving the original signal so no changes are made, tube amps add quite a bit of distortion to the signal (this distortion is what gives them their "warmth"), so by definition they are not the best choice for sound quality. They do have their own personality though, and many people like them.