Which cars used carbon fibre first?

[racer917]

Any specific cars and years? F1, Le Mans or which type were the first to use it? This of course is for accuracy. Wouldn't want to use cf on a kit when the actual car didn't.

Thanks

[mikemechanic]

I thought the MP4 series of McLarens where the first, but I recently received some pictures of a Re30 Renault F1 car that have carbon fibre wings and stuff, so I am now not sure. The Re30 raced in 1982.

[RallyRaider]

Carbon fibre has been around for a long, long time. Earliest car that I know of to use it was the Gulf GT40s which used carbon reinforced panels.

Having said that the way carbon fibre looks has changed a lot over time. The typical striped pattern we all know only really dates back to the mid eighties and is only the most common form since the early nineties. True the MP4 was the first full carbon fibre chassis, but that had a very rough unfinished textured surface, using modern carbon fibred decals (if there was a kit) would look wrong. Carbon fibre was used in F1 way before that however. Graham Hill’s team used a carbon fibre rear wing mount on their 1975 Lola built chassis. It tragically collapsed during the Spanish GP, causing the car to crash into spectators, killing several.

Best thing to do is collect references on the car you are building. Making generalisations will only lead to mistakes. Like I recently saw somewhere a Lotus 107 (IIRC) with carbon fibre decals all over the suspension - very wrong as carbon fibre didn't come into use for wishbones and pushrods until the late nineties. Even more embarrassing was a build-up of a McLaren MP4/13 which the guy had superdetailed including horizontally mounted front springs and dampers. Wrong, the MP4/13 heralded a return to vertical dampers.

[The Lambrusco Kid]

I learn so many things from this board!

[scudera]

The jordan 191 (1991) used cf for its front pushrods later in the season

[RallyRaider]

I didn't know that! Jordan must have been the first then. I had remembered it was a gradual introduction, but I incorrectly recalled McLaren and Ferrari being the pacesetters. I think the pushrods were made from carbon fibre first because they should only be compressed in the one direction. The wishbones have more forces to contend with so were trickier to make strong enough.

[scudera]

I have the formula perfect manual and you can easily see the twill weave on the front pushrods at the portugese GP. I think I checked the rear and they look to be steel, can't remeber. I am currently working slowly on this car. Had a drama with the floor.
If there were any voids or defects in the composite then it would be less likely to fail in compression so it make sense.

[hueb_s]

I have the FPM on the Lotus 107/107B and it shows clearly that the 107 used cf for the steering rod, the suspension seems to be steel (or similar), though...
Also, the wings, cowlings, undertray are cf, Lotus used it since the Lotus 88 in 1981, McLaren since the MP4/1 also in 1981.

[Tikiman]

Are you all getting carbon fibre mixed up with fibre glass? Fibre glass is quite an old material that has quite a rough texture on the back. I think it is a mixture of plastic strands and an epoxy resin, whereas carbon fibre is completely different. Dunno how that is made. Maybe they are the same thing but carbon fibre is a more modern version with a new name.Please inform me if i am wrong.

[Rtuned]

My friend told me The front downforce wing and rear wing of F189 were raw carbon fiber, basically is black on black. you only can see the difference on the real car.

[gasman03]

I'm about 99.9% sure that the first car to use Carbon Fiber was the GT-40

[hueb_s]

All the black & gold JPS Lotus' starting from the early 80's have front and rear wings in pure cf...
Look at this pic of the Lotus 91 of 1982:


I really don't think the Ford GT 40 used carbon fibre as it was first used in F1 beginning with the 80's and prior only in aerospace industries. I think the GT40 used something like fibre glass...

[Big Pat]

Originally Posted by Tikiman

Are you all getting carbon fibre mixed up with fibre glass? Fibre glass is quite an old material that has quite a rough texture on the back. I think it is a mixture of plastic strands and an epoxy resin, whereas carbon fibre is completely different. Dunno how that is made. Maybe they are the same thing but carbon fibre is a more modern version with a new name.Please inform me if i am wrong.

Carbon fiber is very similar to glass fiber, in concept if not in appearance. While Glass fiber used long glass fiber (sic) weaved together and held with resin, Carbon fiber uses long carbon strings held with resin. Nowadays, Carbon fiber cloths are usually weaved with Kevlar strands as well to improve mechanical properties.

According to "Competiton Car composites", carbon fiber has been used in Motorsport applications since the early 70s.

[RallyRaider]

The GT40 used carbon fibre but not as we think of it today. Rather it used carbon fibre strands to reinforce fibreglass panels, making them thinner and lighter. We're only talking about the JWA built "Gulf Spec" cars, of which only a handful were built (or rebuilt, depending which theory you subscribe to), regular GT40s were pure fibreglass. The carbon reinforced panels looked nothing like the carbon fibre we see today. It just looked like black painted fibreglass.

[RallyRaider]

Steffen, back in those days the carbon fibre on the Lotus was known as the "Chapman Tartan" because of it's black and yellow criss-cross pattern! It was built up from flat sheets of carbon fibre, folded and joined, rather that the complex molds John Barnard began to use with the MP4s.