Omg The Bugatti Veyron

[3000GT_Formula_350]

If you dont know about it, look it up O M G, W12 8.0L 64 valve Quad Turbocharged engine and it's a passenger car!!! And you thought your hot rod was fast. Now that's some engineering, 0-60 mph in 3.0 seconds, hits like 258 mph top, and you can drive it on the street. And only a cool million some odd bucks...thats the new favorite for me!! www.howstuffworks.com theres a link to their site there.

[DinanM3_S2]

I personally do not like this car. It weighs 4,300 lbs (Viper wieghs about 1,000 lbs less, the McLaren F1 weighs about 2,000 lbs less). VW/Bugatti has been incredibly late on production of this car, mostly because they havn't met some of their promises (i.e. 250mph, 0-60 in 3.0ish). They also had to downgrade the hp numbers down into the 900s. Although it hasn't been proven yet, I also doubt this car will handle very well at all, it just weighs too much. Its a supercar, with the interior of a high-end luxury car. They are just trying to do too much with this car. If I'm gunna spend $1,000,000+ on a car, I'd get a McLaren F1 LM, or a Carrera GT, or an Enzo, not this poser-mobile. It just screams "trying too hard."

[3000GT_Formula_350]

It damn well better scream trying too hard if I'm gonna pay a million bucks for it, and of course it weighs more, it must to stay on the ground and have traction with that kind of power not to mention the engine is much bigger. Where are you getting your statistics I didn't find anything saying what you just said, rumors? Also, this car is above those that you named b/c not only is it faster, but look at the engineering, the transmission is a 7-speed sequential with TWO clutches and it shifts in .2 seconds when you tell it to. You're stat's are off, they are selling with the stat's I gave, so please do back up your statement before denouncing a great car.

[mason_RsX]

I haven't officially heard the numbers are changed from the 1,001 hp but we all know from experience that the initial hp stats are a lil optimistic and that emission regulations cut down alot of that (M5, and my biggest let down the RX8)...I would just say don't get your hopes up on over 1k hp

[finally_retired]

I no the usa is really strickt on emmisions. They had to put a toyota engine into the Lotus Elise rather than the Rover K series to bring it over there. Not that thats an entirely bad thing though. I here that the RX8 is noticably slower than the european spec car. This is alwasy the problem with powerful cars. Its all this "keep the green party happy" crap. Cows passing wind count for 32% of global warming. Cars is 1.2%

(This is my 100th post!!!)

[Sean_S]

Originally Posted by 3000GT_Formula_350

It damn well better scream trying too hard if I'm gonna pay a million bucks for it, and of course it weighs more, it must to stay on the ground and have traction with that kind of power not to mention the engine is much bigger. Where are you getting your statistics I didn't find anything saying what you just said, rumors? Also, this car is above those that you named b/c not only is it faster, but look at the engineering, the transmission is a 7-speed sequential with TWO clutches and it shifts in .2 seconds when you tell it to. You're stat's are off, they are selling with the stat's I gave, so please do back up your statement before denouncing a great car.

Eh weight and traction and what? Not trying to be an ass here, but there are +1000 horsepower cars that weigh much less then 4300 pounds, so that's not really a good excuse. Straight line traction isn't all about weight, but track performance is severly hampered by weight. It will be a good car for the semi-enthusiast who wants a capable car that is also comfortable.

[3000GT_Formula_350]

Yeah there's 1000+ horsepower cars that weigh less...but they are also dont have the body of a passenger car...they have the body of a Lemanz race car, THATS the difference and reason it is needed. Shit you could throw a 1000+ HP engine in a Geo Metro and say it weighs less and doesnt need weight for traction, but is that feasible to sell as a passenger car? No...I see a lot of forums of people whining that its too powerful and ugly, its like 80% of the people just hate on it because its better than the rest, and they don't like that for some reason. I mean come on its got the power and speed of a champ car and its a passenger car that weighs 4000+ lbs...and BTW WTF is wrong with it weighing that much if it puts up stats like that, more weight means more traction, AWD means better handling...I don't see anyone proving anything but ignorance to the facts. And if you want to deny things, then please back it up, you show me how something else is better with stats not ignorant talk, before you post. Not to be mean, but no one has made much sense yet.

[DinanM3_S2]

Well my facts come from CAR and EVO magazines, 2 of the most respected car mags in the world. Both have written articles complaining about the various problems (delays in release and falling short in hp/torque). My weight numbers on the Veyron come from the website that 3000GT posted. The Veyron has been in the design/concept phase of its development since early 2000, and was supposed to be released as a 2002 model.

Originally Posted by 3000GT_Formula_350

BTW WTF is wrong with it weighing that much if it puts up stats like that

Heres a basic physics equation. F=MA (Force = Mass x Acceleration). When you rearrange the equation it reads A=F/M. This means that when mass increases, acceleration decreases, and when force increases, acceleration increases. (disclamer: this equation does not fully explain excelleration in the real world, but its close) The Veyron weighs alot, therefore slowing the car down. Granted, its HP numbers compensate, it still doesnt get a ratio of certain other high end supercars (ie McLaren F1 LM, which has 660hp/2341lbs and the Koenigsegg CCR which has 805hp/2712lbs). 1000hp/4300lbs pales in comparison. Weight and power are equally important when designing a performance oriented car.

Weight also hampers the handling of a car. Theres another physics equation to describe that, but its a bit more complicated, but heres an example. The Lotus Elise is considered one of the best handling cars ever built, and its not AWD, its RWD. One of the biggest reasons it handles so well is its rediculously low weight (1565lbs on 2001, Euro Specs).

The Veyron just isnt worth it, when the McLaren, or the CCR, or the Enzo, or CGT are so much better.

[MR2Driver]

F = M x A in a vacuum

[DinanM3_S2]

Originally Posted by Lachean

F = M x A in a vacuum

Thats exactly why I put my little disclamer in... In the real world air resistance also comes into effect. Correct me if I am wrong, but im pretty sure the drag coefficient on the Veyron isnt very good compared to the other cars i mentioned.

[3000GT_Formula_350]

So let me get this straight, you don't like it because it came out later than they said?? And because its heavier than other cars...the difference in horsepower per pound of weight is minimal in comparison, to the Mclaren F1, and if I remember correctly that ratio is actually better than the Mclaren's. This car hits 188 MPH in 14 seconds. It puts down 950 ft/lbs of torque (Forbes), has the fastest rated tires of any car (most important in handling) which are modified F1 tires that last and have the same "sticky" grip. I did more research, and the 1001 HP converted to American becomes 986 HP, so maybe that's where you heard the downgrade.

Now obviously a light car will handle well, a Geo Metro with a modified suspension could take a 90 degree turn at 80 probabaly. And yes the Lotus Elise was RWD, what if it was AWD?

And yes, basic physics says that it will have more force, but you don't have information to prove that the handling would be any worse than a car that weighs half what it does. There's too many factors of the amount of traction and downforce and not enough statistical information. So you can't say that it handles worse because it weighs 4k lbs, that's ignorance to a large number of variables.

Apparently speed doesn't matter to you, you want efficiency and the most handling, and that's your opinion. For me if I have a choice of the fastest production car ever built, or one that isn't as fast but weighs less...I'd have to go with the fastest car. Because in the real world, you're not gonna be going 200 MPH around any turns, but you might hit 250 MPH in a drag race. And if it WAS for professional racing, then it would depend on the track, and all those variable that we don't yet know.

[DinanM3_S2]

"The troubled Bugatti Veyron 16.4 supercar has been pushed back again - and now won't make its debut for at least another 15 months. The weekly reports that Bugatti has already had to reduce the predicted top speed of the car from 252 mph to 218 mph because of high-speed stability issues. Now, production of the 8.0-liter, W-16-powered supercar is being delayed because of undefined "quality" issues. Parent company Volkswagen is suffering from sluggish sales and "lousy" financial results that have led some to speculate the entire Bugatti project may never reach full production."
-Auto Week

"The launch of the 1,001bhp Bugatti Veyron has been postponed until next year. The first customers were due to get their cars around now, but they may have to wait 12 months. Insiders say this is because VW Group boss Bernd Pischetsrieder is increasingly worried about spiralling costs."
-Auto Express


I find it funny that a car that isnt even in prodution yet falls short of the McLaren F1, which is over 10 years old now. The Bugatti is not a performance oriented car. No performance car has an interior like the Veyron. Do the math 660hp/2341lbs > 1000hp/4,300lbs. The McLaren F1 does have a better ratio. Im not going to pretend to know everything about the aerodynamics of these cars, but im pretty sure most people would agree that the McLaren has the Veryon beat. My comment on the Elise was meant to show that you do not need AWD to handle well. If you would be willing to pay $1,000,000 for a car like this then good for you, but I would much rather have a car like the McLaren, a car with actual racing history and success. The greatest sportcar ever built.

[Sean_S]

Originally Posted by 3000GT_Formula_350

Yeah there's 1000+ horsepower cars that weigh less...but they are also dont have the body of a passenger car...they have the body of a Lemanz race car, THATS the difference and reason it is needed. Shit you could throw a 1000+ HP engine in a Geo Metro and say it weighs less and doesnt need weight for traction, but is that feasible to sell as a passenger car? No...I see a lot of forums of people whining that its too powerful and ugly, its like 80% of the people just hate on it because its better than the rest, and they don't like that for some reason. I mean come on its got the power and speed of a champ car and its a passenger car that weighs 4000+ lbs...and BTW WTF is wrong with it weighing that much if it puts up stats like that, more weight means more traction, AWD means better handling...I don't see anyone proving anything but ignorance to the facts. And if you want to deny things, then please back it up, you show me how something else is better with stats not ignorant talk, before you post. Not to be mean, but no one has made much sense yet.

Yes because we all know that straight line acceleration means everything in a track race. After all, Lingenfelter Corvettes are the best track cars ever. The 850 horsepower version, by the way, would walk this car.

More weight does not mean more traction. More weight means more body roll. More weight means more understeer. If more weight gives so much more traction, why is it that the best track cars in the world strive to stay lower then say 3300 pounds? I mean, why not just up the horsepower and weight to provide better traction? Why is it that cars like the Exige and r500 Super 7 have incredible handling? I don't think you are seeing that part. The Murcielago is the only good track car I can think of that weighs 4000 pounds, and it is obviously worse in the corners then lighter supercars like the Enzo and the Carrera GT. I won't even go into the AWD proving better handling part as this is not proven as of yet. Though if someone would like to provide proof of this, that's fine with me.

I sure don't see any facts that you supposidly have posted. All you have put are straight line acceleration. That's it. Maybe if we
re talking oval racing this would be the best...

[3000GT_Formula_350]

Originally Posted by Sean_S

Yes because we all know that straight line acceleration means everything in a track race. After all, Lingenfelter Corvettes are the best track cars ever. The 850 horsepower version, by the way, would walk this car.

More weight does not mean more traction. More weight means more body roll. More weight means more understeer. If more weight gives so much more traction, why is it that the best track cars in the world strive to stay lower then say 3300 pounds? I mean, why not just up the horsepower and weight to provide better traction? Why is it that cars like the Exige and r500 Super 7 have incredible handling? I don't think you are seeing that part. The Murcielago is the only good track car I can think of that weighs 4000 pounds, and it is obviously worse in the corners then lighter supercars like the Enzo and the Carrera GT. I won't even go into the AWD proving better handling part as this is not proven as of yet. Though if someone would like to provide proof of this, that's fine with me.

I sure don't see any facts that you supposidly have posted. All you have put are straight line acceleration. That's it. Maybe if we
re talking oval racing this would be the best...

What are you illiterate? read what I wrote in the other post I said in a drag race smart ass, and I said track no one knows because it hasnt been tested...as for the speed limit to 218, its not out yet and they have plans to push it back to 252 before it does come out, dont tell half a story...and as I just said in the last post, I won't be racing in a track ever, won't be going around turns at over 200 MPH ever, but I might go over 200 MPH in a straight line at some point...and the fastest car to get me there that you could buy off the lot would be the Buggati, used to be the Mclaren F1, then Enzo...I never said it was all around better, just faster in a straight line, pay attention, and the facts that I have posted have been specifications on the engine only, I never claimed that it was better on a track, it hasn't been tested once again, so none of you can say, "no way it'll beat a mclaren or a carrera Gt or an enzo". get it yet?

[Sean_S]

Originally Posted by 3000GT_Formula_350

What are you illiterate? read what I wrote in the other post I said in a drag race smart ass, and I said track no one knows because it hasnt been tested...as for the speed limit to 218, its not out yet and they have plans to push it back to 252 before it does come out, dont tell half a story...and as I just said in the last post, I won't be racing in a track ever, won't be going around turns at over 200 MPH ever, but I might go over 200 MPH in a straight line at some point...and the fastest car to get me there that you could buy off the lot would be the Buggati, used to be the Mclaren F1, then Enzo...I never said it was all around better, just faster in a straight line, pay attention, and the facts that I have posted have been specifications on the engine only, I never claimed that it was better on a track, it hasn't been tested once again, so none of you can say, "no way it'll beat a mclaren or a carrera Gt or an enzo". get it yet?

Originally Posted by 3000GT_Formula_350

...And yes, basic physics says that it will have more force, but you don't have information to prove that the handling would be any worse than a car that weighs half what it does. There's too many factors of the amount of traction and downforce and not enough statistical information. So you can't say that it handles worse because it weighs 4k lbs, that's ignorance to a large number of variables...

...and BTW WTF is wrong with it weighing that much if it puts up stats like that, more weight means more traction, AWD means better handling...

...has the fastest rated tires of any car (most important in handling)...

...And yes, basic physics says that it will have more force, but you don't have information to prove that the handling would be any worse than a car that weighs half what it does. There's too many factors of the amount of traction and downforce and not enough statistical information. So you can't say that it handles worse because it weighs 4k lbs, that's ignorance to a large number of variables...

It wasn't until your 4th post you said anything about drag racing. So uh, what were you trying to prove again? If you like the car, more power to you. Just don't expect people to care because it's fast in the straight line, or to think it's the best car ever to be made.