2strokebloke, as president of the U.S.A.

[2strokebloke]

What would you do as president? Here's what I'd do...
First and foremost, there's alot of cleaning up to do - if the government where a house, it'd be infested with termites. There's too many useless people doing too many useless things as inefficiently as possible, government agencies would be streamlined, and/or integrated with other agencies the focus being to get rid of the excess that's chewing away at the framework of our government. The big plus would be spending less money paying people who do practically nothing, spending less money on their supplies, and less money on the physical space they occupy.
The saved money could then be spent on something usefull and constructive - such as promoting renewable energy sources (we need to think of longer term sustainable industry, instead of short term profits), or restructuring the nation's railroads for more efficient and faster freight and passenger service, thus strengthening the nations infrastructure. Or perhaps, we'd just cut that money out altogether, and reduce taxes.
And let's tie up loose ends and resolve problems that after years and years of draggin on have yet to reach any reasonable conclusion - seriously, what's with cuba? I'd bet you dollars to donuts that lifting the embargo would destroy communism in Cuba, and within a decade or two, it'd become a healthy free market economy. And what the hell is up with the war on drugs in South America? It's a worthless waste of time, money, and effort - let's get the hell out of there and focus on the problem at it's source - here in the U.S. where the money is coming from.
We need to stop making our problems everybody else's problems -and we need to stop sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, the U.S. works for the U.S. - we wouldn't be handing out free "liberations" or any of that B.S. anymore.
Anyway that's what I'd do - and you?

[YogsVR4]

You wouldn't get my vote. Your idealism is noble, but impracticle.


I'd eliminate the IRS. I'd restructure INS (though its part of homeland security, its still the beaucratic nightmare is was before). I'd push for the line item veto to be permanent which would give the president the ability to cut the pork barrel spending that so often runs as a rider on those bills. I'd eliminate the education department and let the states resume control. I'd withdraw from the UN and let New York deal with them as they would any other renter. I'd withdraw from NATO and leave the restructured bases in Qutar and Poland (as long as those countries approved of their involvement). I'd continue to sanction Cuba. I'd resind the permanent 'most favored nation' for trading status outside of the NAFTA members. Immigration would be reformed. Noone entering this country illegally will recieve any special dispensation and anyone knowingly employing them will be fined harshly.

Welfare, HUD, comp grant and social security would go through overhals. Money wasted down a bottomless pit. Social security has about a 1% return rate. Pathetic. The government would be better off investing it in its own bonds then letting it sit there for congress to dip in.

All that is just for starters.

[MagicRat]

If we were able to somehow mash the two of you together, we would get a far better president than the current Whitehouse occupant.

[2strokebloke]

You wouldn't get my vote.

Even if the only person opposing me was Ralph Nader?

[lazysmurff]

yogs, youve pinned it, except for the cuba bit...why sanction cuba yet continue trade with china?

[2strokebloke]

I too am curious about the opinion you hold on cuba - otherwise I like the way you're thinking Yogs.

[lazysmurff]

*psst* the only reason we still sanction cuba is so that we dont alienate the cuban refugees that vote in florida...to lose them means you lose one of the most key states in the election

so whats your reason yogs?

[YogsVR4]

Comparing Cuba and China is making the mistake and thinking the embargo is because of communism. It's about property ownership - not the votes. Castro displaced the property owners when he took power. Those owners were forced to flee Cuba, were imprisoned or were displaced. That property has tremendous value and the owners want it back. Right now Castro hand picks who gets the land.

[2strokebloke]

Never mind those who were forced out of China, imprisioned, enslaved, or murdered when Mao ruled China... That's totally different that what happened in Cuba. So what you're saying is we can't do anything about Cuba until either the former land owners die, or Castro dies. If anything you'd think that we'd be dealing with Cuba before we'd ever lower our standards to China - but alas, China holds a huge ammount of future profit, plenty of natural resources and a billion people to exploit, no such luck with Cuba.

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

Never mind those who were forced out of China, imprisioned, enslaved, or murdered when Mao ruled China... That's totally different that what happened in Cuba. So what you're saying is we can't do anything about Cuba until either the former land owners die, or Castro dies. If anything you'd think that we'd be dealing with Cuba before we'd ever lower our standards to China - but alas, China holds a huge ammount of future profit, plenty of natural resources and a billion people to exploit, no such luck with Cuba.

Who said nevermind it? I was asked why the embargo on Cuba would stand. Please do not put words in my mouth. I did say or imply that we can't do anything until the landowners or Castro die.

China is a lot different. The people who were displaced did not own the property. The government owned it already. The fact a different form of government took control is a big difference. China's revolution killed, raped and tortured an untold number of people. My wifes grandmother was raped, grandfather tortured and imprisoned for fifteen years.

As I said before, I would revoke the most favored nation status on China, or did you just blow right by that one? China didn't get that status until it started to open up its markets. Should Cuba do the same, then trade restriction would be drawn back in the same manner. Neither would have carte blanche on trade.

I have a feeling that some people don't know the history of the Chinese revolution or Castors rise to power. I do not claim to be an expert, but between the relatives I have that lived through it in China (and the relatives who still live there) and my colleagues in Miami who are displaced Cuban nationals, I think I have enough knowledge to realize that the two countries and their history are to dissimilar for direct comparisons.

[twospirits]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

It's about property ownership - not the votes. Castro displaced the property owners when he took power. Those owners were forced to flee Cuba, were imprisoned or were displaced. That property has tremendous value and the owners want it back. Right now Castro hand picks who gets the land.

hmmm, so I guess we should also give back the property that has tremendous value back to the Indians as well. Give me a break. I was agreeing with you until the Cuba statement. Nobody, I repeat nobody forced the Cubans out of Cuba. They left cause they saw the revolution coming, that Castro and the people standing for him were coming in. They could have stood and fight for whats theres, but they were in the minority. They were the minority upper class rich that kept the majority lower class uneducated, and in the poverty house. The mafia as I like to call the Cubans in Miami, continue to cry foul over their treatment. Of losing their property, of losing their livelyhood. Bullshit. They are making much more than they ever were in Cuba. The embargo is only hurting the Cuban people, not Castro, nor his party. Since Batista has left, 98% of the Cuban population excels in school, we US citizens can't say that. They all learn a trade, we can't say that. The Cubans in Miami would love for Castro to die to go back in and reclaim whats theirs. And as you put it, nothing can be done untill the landowners there die. But what of the landowners children and grand children that take over the land from their fathers. Are you meaning to tell me that the Cubans are just gonna allow the Miami Cubans or the USA to come in and take their homes just like that. hmmm I wonder what that sounds like.

I would suggest anyone that has the ability to visit Cuba, to do so. Stop listening to the propaganda that arrises from Miami. Then and only then will they see what the embargo is doing to the people of Cuba. Not just listening to a bunch of old disgruntled folks that continue to think that they have every right to take something back that was lost over 30 years ago on their own free will.

TS out

[YogsVR4]

Saying nobody forced the Cubans out is the same as saying nobody forced the Indians out. Subtle shades of gray. I think we are all standing on the slippery slope here.

While its true that some of the property owners were rich, that is moot to who owns the land. The death of Castro is immaterial to the ownership question. The real issue is the ownership. If private property is allowed in Cuba, it has to take into account the former owners who still have claim. I'm not saying its easy nor is anything going to be fair to everyone.

The fact that Cuba has areas of poverty is quite often blamed on the embargo is annoying. Cuba is embargoed by the US. Mexico, Canada the entire central and south Americas do not participate. Neither does China, Japan or Europe. Anything they could buy here, could be bought someplace else. Accusing the embargo for creating their condition is a red herring.

The only change I would make is the travel restriction. Letting people come and go will do more to help the situation get resolved then the travel of goods.

If you want to talk about American Indians, lets start a new thread. You'll be happy to know that my father is part Cherokee and I've got lots of good stories. Being adopted throws a lot of people when our family is out and about. Indian father. Chinese wife. Potential black brother-in-law. We look like a PC parade sometimes.

[2strokebloke]

The fact that Cuba has areas of poverty is quite often blamed on the embargo is annoying. Cuba is embargoed by the US. Mexico, Canada the entire central and south Americas do not participate. Neither does China, Japan or Europe. Anything they could buy here, could be bought someplace else. Accusing the embargo for creating their condition is a red herring.

That's why we have to get rid of the embargos.

I was asked why the embargo on Cuba would stand.

I'm sorry I missunderstood you, I read what you wrote forgetting that you were addressing two different posts.

[twospirits]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Saying nobody forced the Cubans out is the same as saying nobody forced the Indians out. Subtle shades of gray. I think we are all standing on the slippery slope here.

I agree.

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

If private property is allowed in Cuba, it has to take into account the former owners who still have claim. I'm not saying its easy nor is anything going to be fair to everyone.

Even that far back, with no proof of ownership. It will be harder I think.

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

The only change I would make is the travel restriction. Letting people come and go will do more to help the situation get resolved then the travel of goods.

I agree 100 % on this one.

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

If you want to talk about American Indians, lets start a new thread. You'll be happy to know that my father is part Cherokee and I've got lots of good stories. Being adopted throws a lot of people when our family is out and about. Indian father. Chinese wife. Potential black brother-in-law. We look like a PC parade sometimes.

Thats cool. No need to start another thread, unless you want too . I just brought up the Indian reference cause of the "owners want it back" statement and it seemed appropiate.

But I still believe the embargo should be rid of. It serves no purpose except to satisfy the displaced Cubans in Miami. Most businesses want to deal with Cuba, most want the travel relaxed and with the unofficial currency in Cuba already the american dollar anyway, the process to capitalism would be much more quicker.

Back on topic: I vote for 2strokebloke.

TS out (getting a helmet to protect from yogs response)

[YogsVR4]

You can't vote for Bloke! He's not old enough yet