Ford GT versus Enzo and Carrera GT in MT

[syr74]

Wow, the October issue of Motor Trend says a mouthful. It may be a "top speed" story, but it is still mind-blowing to see the Ford GT rip off an 11.2 second quarter mile. More awe inspiring is that it was edged out by a mere tenth when compared to the Porsche Carrera GT, and 2 tenths when compared to the Enzo. Considering the rather large difference in price tags between the Ford and the two Europeans this is amazing. Consider also that a tenth, or even two tenths, in one test only points to a very close race at any time and not any genuine, lasting advantage.

On a different track, on a different day the Ford, or the Porsche could easily win instead of the Enzo. Keeping in mind the fact that any traction limitation is likely going to hamper the big torque, supercharged Ford GT the most, and the high revving Enzo the least, it's easy to believe either the Porsche or Ford could possibly win over the Italian given the right conditions. Any of these cars could conceivably post a 1/4 mile time that starts with a 10 given a good driver and good conditions..........ridiculously fast for sure.

The above aside, the fact that the GT is competition for the Modena, but accelerates with the Enzo, is staggering. It would appear Ford was indeed "sandbagging" with their pre-production GT's just as many had suspected. Even more amazing is just how well the Ford stacked up from a handling standpoint as well. Given the huge price advantage you would think the Ford has to give up something somewhere, but no. The top speed Ford announced for the GT was apparently "conservative" as well.

It goes without saying that Viper fans prior hopes that pre-production Ford GT performance tests were accurate was only a big lead up to dissapointment. This thing blows Dodge's snake into the weeds big-time. In it's price range the Viper is a bargain and demands respect. However, the GT would appear to be significantly faster in virtually every respect than the new Viper and has got be the the current bang for the buck marvel even at 150k. Also consider that any future Viper GTS Coupe would have to be very highly modified to make up for the newly apparent disparity in performance.

Anything short of a full on, mega-exotic may as well keep it in the garage if a Ford GT is on the road.

edit: If the new Lightning's motor is anything like this, and we essentially know that it is, then the SRT10 truck's days on the "throne" are numbered indeed.

[kman10587]

The problem is that it's almost impossible to find a Ford GT for $150,000; most dealers are marking them up big time. Even so, it's a great value at $200,000 or even $250,000.

[NISSANSPDR]

Carrera GT all day...sounds GLORIOUS!

[kman10587]

I'd probably take a Gallardo over any of these.. :P

[youngvr4]

Why?

[ghetto7o2azn]

the porsche also looks the best imo lol

[GTStang]

Originally Posted by kman10587

The problem is that it's almost impossible to find a Ford GT for $150,000; most dealers are marking them up big time. Even so, it's a great value at $200,000 or even $250,000.

Yea but the same thing happenend with the 2000 Cobra R's when they first came out. Dealers were getting away with selling them for $90,000 etc.., But after the first 6 months the Cobra R could be bought for the MSRP and sometimes less. Just cause a few idiots will pay way over MSRP to be one of the firsts doesn't mean it stays like that.

[kman10587]

Originally Posted by youngvr4

Why?

Because the Gallardo is just bad-ass. It reminds me of an exotic VR-4 without the clutch/tranny problems, and much better looks

[Neutrino]

1.Here we go acceleration numbers. And how good of a deal the GT is. If acceleration is what you are interested in get a Lingenfelter TT vette for way less it will spank the GT in the 1/4 or heck even a "lowly" evo 4 banger with 15K extra will pull low 11.

2. The price argument: GT is much cheaper than an Enzo and as retail that is true but now answer this is Form making any profit of the GT? Nobody knows Ford could even be losing huge amounts at each sale. Would Ford care? No because the GT is a rolling advertisement banner. On the other hand Ferrari is making big profits both on the Enzo and especially on the Modena.

So the whole argument Ford can make it much cheaper and faster is flawed since we have no ideea of the production cost of the GT.



If Ford want to prove their superiority to Ferrari they are free to spank them in F1 or LeMans directly againts the Enzo aka MC12.

[Jimster]

Auarter miles are about as important to Supercar buyers as horsepower is to Westinghouse buyers.

It's not.

Everyone who has driven the GT has said it, the GT is an easy car to drive, which is not something I want in a Supercar. It's like playing FIFA 2004 in Beginner mode- You would win races, but at the same time, the car is effectively telling you that you are a moron.

I like my supercars Uncomfortable, raw and edgy, the GT isn't any of those.

[GTStang]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

1.Here we go acceleration numbers. And how good of a deal the GT is. If acceleration is what you are interested in get a Lingenfelter TT vette for way less it will spank the GT in the 1/4 or heck even a "lowly" evo 4 banger with 15K extra will pull low 11.

2. The price argument: GT is much cheaper than an Enzo and as retail that is true but now answer this is Form making any profit of the GT? Nobody knows Ford could even be losing huge amounts at each sale. Would Ford care? No because the GT is a rolling advertisement banner. On the other hand Ferrari is making big profits both on the Enzo and especially on the Modena.

So the whole argument Ford can make it much cheaper and faster is flawed since we have no ideea of the production cost of the GT.



If Ford want to prove their superiority to Ferrari they are free to spank them in F1 or LeMans directly againts the Enzo aka MC12.

1. How the car accelrates is part of the picture but not the only one. The Ford GT accelrates like a beast, can do 200+mph, and handles and brakes(magazine writers opinions) with cars the have a much larger price tag.

2. How do you know that Ferrari is making large amounts of money on the Enzo? I think you have just as many facts to prove that, as I do that Ford is making good money on the GT and not losing money. Ford has always said the would not produce a car unless in monetarily made sense for them to do so and did not approve the GT until the proved the could make a profit on it. So we have to take Ford's word for it just like we have to take Ferrari's.

Also the Enzo is Ferrari's rolling advertisement to their greatness so they would care bout losing money the same as Ford. So until you can prove otherwise the price arguement is still in play. And if you think the GT is bad now wait till you see the aftermarket parts that have already been developed for it.

Originally Posted by Jimster

Everyone who has driven the GT has said it, the GT is an easy car to drive, which is not something I want in a Supercar. It's like playing FIFA 2004 in Beginner mode- You would win races, but at the same time, the car is effectively telling you that you are a moron.

I like my supercars Uncomfortable, raw and edgy, the GT isn't any of those.

I don't see a car that can do can do more and to it better as a down side. It's just more of a credit to the quality of engineering but put into this car. But it's all opinion.

[Kurtdg19]

I think the GT will be a good car when it hits the dealers. Of coarse there will always be critics trying to point out their disinterests in particular aspects concerning the GT, but those are simple facts of life everyone should know by now.

Will there be dealer markups? Let me just ask this quesiton: What cars don't have dealer markups? It should be known by now the more expensive the car, the higher the markup is. Now will this prevent potential buyers? Probably not considering they probably already know and are aware of the markups anyway. There is more to this equation than just price, but I don't have all the time in the world to explain what else. Bottom line here, this 'markup arguement' if you will is just stupid because it doesn't make the GT any weaker of a car.

Now value? Value can mean many different things, so it is harder to determine whether a car offers more value. Some people may believe that a Modena for 150k is a good value, or an Enzo going for 1.4million a value. Who am I to say their wrong? If you narrow down what specific value you are looking for it would be easier to determine whether a GT does offer a better value than the Ferrari/Porsche. For instance: If you were to find out which car offers more of a value in performance per dollar. This way, there would be a more superior car in terms of performance per dollar.

And Neutrino, I'm not entirly sure what you are actually trying to point out since (unless anybody does) nobody knows the production cost on either the Enzo/Ford GT/Carrera GT. I would very seriously doubt that Ford is marking down their GT's in a ridiculous manner, but if they are, I am wrong. I do agree however; that if they want to be better at making and racing F1 cars, than Ferrari is who they need to beat.

[THE ARS]

Keep in mind if you can afford a $150,000 automobile you can afford to keep it full of 116.

330 cid + twin screw + 25 psi = Bye bye Enzo and McClaren. 1000 streetable HP is not out of the question given the owner's anticipated resources.

It's a nice time to be a gear head isn't it?

I'm sticking by my old Buick though.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by Jimster

A the car is effectively telling you that you are a moron.

I just had to quote that for effect, incase anyone missed it.


When you pay over $100,000 for a super car, the ultimate in driving, you don't want something that feels like a Toyota Corrola.

[Jimster]

I don't see how the GT could have cost that much to develop...... It has an engine found in the Trucks and Falcon, a Supercharger. Ferrari have a much harder time building thier engines- They don't have mainstream cars to flog the engines out of. As nice of an engine as the Alfa Romeo 3.2 V6 is, it wouldn't do too well in a Modena yet alone an Enzo.

Then they took a 360 Modena, pulled it apart and said- "Uh huh, yep, change that keep that, change that keep that." Until they were happy, then all that imagination used was such hard work, they had little originality left for the design, so they ripped off an old Lola design and made it bigger.

I can't think of one innovative feature of the GT, please correct me if I'm wrong, but from where I sit, it's (as Neutrino said) a moving advertising board for a company in deep trouble.

Once that was done, they engineered it so the typical rich Yank could drive it, hence why C&D journos manage to get such good times in it.

Damon Hill said it himself- the GT is a useable car and far more civillised than a Ferrari 360, but he'd sooner have the 360 CS for track use (CAR, August 2004).