Help please...sputtering 2000 Protege ES

[bill99]

I hope someone can give some quick advice...and I apologize in advance for the long post...

About three weeks ago, my Protege with 64K started to sputter about a minute after I started it, then it would smooth out. (The first time it happened was the morning after I filled up the night before, more on that later). I drive about 25 miles each way to work, all highway, and the car was performing fine at 60-70 mph. After three days of this, I changed the plugs, which were a little fouled (about 25k between changing). I also threw a can of dry gas in the tank.

The dry gas and new plugs didn't help, and after a few more days, the situation got progressively worse, including the engine light coming on, so I took to a dealer, who diagnosed the problem as bad wires and that I "used the wrong plugs". I used Denso plugs, gapped correctly, that the manual calls for. For $150, they would change them and the wires; I said thanks but no thanks, I'll do it myself. Last night I put in a fresh set of NGK plugs and wires, to no avail. I nursed the car to the gas station, topped it with premium, and it ran marginally better, but still sputtering constantly.

I have no faith in the dealer because I sensed they mis-diagnosed the problem in the first place. When I questioned them on how they arrived at the plugs and wires as the problem, they got defensive and belligerent, so I really don't want to go back to them. I thought it might have been bad gas, hence the dry gas, but I gassed up the two other cars in the family that same week at the same station, and they're fine.

So that's the story, any advice on what the issue might be would be appreciated. But here's the kicker..Last night when I filled up, I noticed the little "trap door" inside the fuel filler housing, that little flap that guards the filler pipe, is gone (assuming it was always there, which I think there was) ...could it have fallen into the tank, and now is blocking the fuel line? Or could it be bad 02 sensor(s), EGR valve, coils or fuel pump? Something else I'm not thinking of?

thanks in advance....

[rjitzsu]

If what you're describing as sputtering is really a misfire, which i assume it is, there could be a few probable causes. The distinguishing factor would be the DTC set by the fault.

1. a random misfire code may possibly be an ignition coil fault. there is a recall for the ignition coil on the 1999-2000 protege but the recall only applies to vehicles within a specific VIN range. your dealer will be able to inform you, upon request, if your vehicle has any open recalls.

2. the MAF sensor may be faulty. this is also another common problem and will throw a 'system too lean' DTC, and possibly cause a misfire. this however, is less likely.

3. Least likely but still a possability; the intake gasket may be leaking around ports 1 and 4, also throwing a 'system too lean' DTC.

My best guess is on the ignition coil, but check with your dealer because if there is an open recall for this problem it would be covered by Mazda. As far as your dealer reccomending "mazda" plugs, they were not completely in the wrong. According to standard diagnostic process spark plug inspection is necessary and any product not known to the technician as being OEM quality should be replaced.

Let me know how it works out
peace>>

[rjitzsu]

as far as the metal flap in the filler neck-

if it did indeed fall off it would have fallen harmlessly to the bottom of the tank. there is no real need or easy way of removing it. the fuel pump is not nearly strong enough to pull the flap from the bottom of the tank so it will lay there doing no damage... no worries there.

peace>>

[bill99]

Thanks for the replies, especially regarding the metal flap...

In an effort to keep my original post as brief as posisble, I left out that I had the two coils and cat replaced in Jan 01 (13 months after I bought the car) under warranty. When the dealer told me last week that the problem was with the wires and plugs, I pressed them on the coil issue, and it was then they got defensive.

Is there a way to pull the code without bring it back to the dealer? I had an Infiniti G20 that had the ECU under the dash, any similar thing on the Proteges?

[rjitzsu]

All of the coil packs covered in the recall were to be replaced with an updated verson. The updated version started production in August of 2000, which means you should already have the updated version. Althought it is probably an updated part, it does not ensure that it is not the part at fault. If I were in your shoes my first step would be to check for open recalls.
DTC's are retrieved in a similar fashion to those in most other OBDII cars. There is a data link connector under the driver's side dash that an OBDII scan tool must be connected to inorder to retireve the DTC(s). Some places like Autozone will do this for free... but DO NOT let them erase the DTC. Despite what many people in this and other forums will tell you, as well as some lesser informed technicians, clearing the code without making a repair will not solve any problems... what it will do is erase other important information that may help in diagnostics. I reccommend leaving this to a professional.
peace>>

[bill99]

rjitzsu, here's the latest...

I dropped the car off this morning at a local garage...no problem with getting spark, ie, the coils are fine, and he got no code from the DTC. In other words, he can't figure it out. His gut is that it's the EGR valve, but his advice is to take it to the dealer (ugh!).

Do you have any experience in cleaning or replacing the EGR in a Protege? I was gonna do it in the '95 G20, but gave up after I saw where it was located.

[rjitzsu]

As for the independant shop, if the car has a check engine light on, there is a stored dtc...

I have rarely seen a malfunctioning or clogged egr valve in a protege yet alone have it cause the symtoms you're having. they do tend to have a problem with the vacuum lines and passages through the intake getting clogged with carbon... but like i said it probably wouldn't cause the symtom's you're having.

Is the MIL still on? If it is, you need to find out what DTC it has stored.

[bill99]

The light is off, I'm assuming that the Mazda dealer cleared the DTC, and that's why the local garage didn't get a code...but I am only guessing. For what it's worth, in limited driving over the last two weeks, the CEL hasn't come back on.

[bill99]

The CEL came on again, so I took it to a different dealer, and they pulled the EGR fault code (I don't have the paperwork on me, so I don't have the exact code). $260 to replace.

[bill99]

I fixed the problem...I'm now driving a new 2004 Honda Civic EX. I'm done with Mazdas, at least those designed and built under the influence of the Ford Motor Company.