big sub, small amp

[pac4eva5]

i have another question (i never run out ). is it possible to run a 1600 watt sub to a 450 watt amp? i know if you play it hard, the amp would go into protection, but if it was at normal listening, would it hurt the sub? it would only be temporary(say like 2-4 weeks). can someone give any results or warnings or something?

[sr20de4evr]

You would have to try very hard to harm a 1600rms sub with a 450rms amp.

Thermalling it simply isn't possible (unless you sent a full power DC signal, which won't happen unless the amp screws up), but it is possible to damage it mechanically if you clip the amp completely while playing the sub WAY below tuning in a ported box.

As long as you aren't retarded though, it will be virtually impossible to damage the sub.

[pac4eva5]

good news

[aznxthuggie]

you can run a 500rms sub with only 2 watts the subs wont' get damaged but you wont be getting shit outta it.. 450rms should sound nice before u start killin people with 1400rms or something

[CBFryman]

With a Clean Signal it is impossible to harm any woofer weather it be sub, midbass even tweeters by under powering them...it is a common myth that placing a low powered amp on a high power sub will harm the sub...it is also a common myth that placing a high power amp on a low power sub will hurt the sub...if low power hurt high power subs your subs would blow every time you turned your system down....and a high power sub can be used just make sure that your speakers isnt bottoming out... basicly morons hurt subs, not wattage...it is true that a 2000w signal on a 1000w sub will harm the woofer...but a 1000w woofer will begin to bottom out 100-200w below their peak wattage rating... and though RMS is the best way to mach subs with amps peak power should still be brought into consideration. SO JUST REMEBER, MORONS KILL SPEAKERS, NOT WATTAGE... oh ya and cliped signals whcih cause perods of DC voltage going into the woofer (the cone stands still...you may not be able to tell by looking at it since even at 20Hz the cone is doing 40strokes per second) this causes a sound that seems 1-2dB louder and distorted depending on how bad hte clip is... but clipping can be easily gotten rid of by using hte gain properly...if the gain turned all the way up is ment for a 2.5v input and you place a 4v input on it it is going to clip like crazy...almost to the point htat you have a "square" wave. if you turn the gain down about half way you will get the same wattage only cleaner...the reason clipping hurts woofers so much is because if you think about it a 400w@60Hz clean signal keeps the cone moving...this keeps an air flow over the copper wire that makes up the cone which keeps it cooler...but a 400w@60Hz distorted or almost "square" signal stops the voive coil and allows it to heat up before beging to move agian in the opposite direction...this period of heating makes the voice coild seem like it is actualy seeing a 600-800w signal because it doesnt have time to cool down...

[sr20de4evr]

it is true that a 2000w signal on a 1000w sub will harm the woofer...but a 1000w woofer will begin to bottom out 100-200w below their peak wattage rating
That depends completely on the speaker in question and the box you have it in, you can stick a 1000W sub in a small sealed box and send it enough power to fry it without the sub even hitting half of its total excursion

almost to the point htat you have a "square" wave. if you turn the gain down about half way you will get the same wattage only cleaner
not really, clipping does produce more power, and by turning down the gain or the volume so the signal is clean again you will decrease the power going to the sub. A 2V peak square wave will have twice the rms power of a 2V peak sine wave, remember rms can be thought of as "area under the curve", and a square has a lot more area under it than a parabola. A 200rms amp can put out close to 400rms if clipped completely, THIS is what kills the speaker, because the person thinks that because they have a 250rms sub and a 200rms amp they can crank the amp's gain and be fine, they don't think that their 200rms amp can put out well over the sub's rated power if it's clipping.

The momentary stopped position caused by the DC peak of a clipped wave will lead to extra heat, but not much at all unless the signal is COMPLETELY clipped. If that were the case, 100 watts at 20hz would lead to a lot more heat build up than 100 watts at 80hz, because the cone is moving so much slower at 20hz. The difference is really negligible, unless the signal is completely clipped like I said above.

[PaulD]

power is what kills speakers .... when you clip an amp heavily, it puts out a LOT more power per unit time .... as much as 3 times more. I routinely buy amps that are over the speakers RMS ratings, I like music though - not test tones

[CBFryman]

Wattage kills woofers ofcourse but only a moron who doesnt know how to set a gain to the woofer kills the woofer not the amp being a beast and the woofer being a pansie woofer....and as far as a clipped signal putting out more wattage it doesnt really...the wattage is the same...if you put 100wDC on a 500w woofer you would fry the voice coil and since clipped signals are partily DC voltage than the period of which that wattage is coming out is longer and the coil is standing still... and i know of no one who thinks that a woofer in a small box sounds better than a properly tuned properly built properly ported bass reflux enclosure....they sound just as clean to me....but it is true a small sealed box will almost never speak...but since woofers are often tested in infinite baffle envronments when speaking if excursion and good woofer companies give wattage ratings in infinite baffle envrionment then yes it bottoms out before peak wattage is reached...

[TheSilentChamber]

Originally Posted by CBFryman

set a gain to the woofer

Gain is set to head unit output, not the sub.

Originally Posted by CBFryman

and i know of no one who thinks that a woofer in a small box sounds better than a properly tuned properly built properly ported bass reflux enclosure

Well, you must not know alot of people. A properly built ported box is quiet rare unless your only looking at comp systems insted of common every day systems what most people will have.

[sr20de4evr]

Wattage kills woofers ofcourse but only a moron who doesnt know how to set a gain to the woofer kills the woofer not the amp being a beast and the woofer being a pansie woofer
What is that supposed to mean? If you feed a sub more than its rated power it can blow whether or not the signal is clipped or the sub is a pansy.

and as far as a clipped signal putting out more wattage it doesnt really...the wattage is the same
no, it's not the same, if you want me to derive the rms power for a sine wave and a square wave with the same peaks I will, but I really don't want to waste my time. I think you need to set aside a whole day and read www.bcae1.com before you start arguing with the people here who know what's going on.

and i know of no one who thinks that a woofer in a small box sounds better than a properly tuned properly built properly ported bass reflux enclosure....they sound just as clean to me....but it is true a small sealed box will almost never speak...but since woofers are often tested in infinite baffle envronments when speaking if excursion and good woofer companies give wattage ratings in infinite baffle envrionment then yes it bottoms out before peak wattage is reached...
I really don't know what that was supposed to say. Many people like the sound of a sealed box more than a ported box, they generally give a flatter in-car response, you don't have the group delay caused by the port, there are a bunch of reasons. And you can feed a sub more than its rated power and fry it before it starts bottoming out in ANY kind of enclosure, sealed, ported, bandpass, etc. The only real exception to this would be IB, but that's not exactly a very common setup for subs.

[CBFryman]

watt hours are greater...but output wattage is the same...and how many $20,000 paird of speakers do you see in a seal enclosure...oh thats righ NONE...most extremely expensive woofers are placed in bass reflux or transmission line enclosures....transmission line is more oftne used in home theatre where you have room for the enclosure....

[sr20de4evr]

watt hours are greater...but output wattage is the same
what? watts are a measurement of power, power is already a function of time. A watt-hour is just a watt divided by 3600 since a watt is a joule per second and a watt-hour is a joule per hour, so your argument makes no sense. And even ignoring the fact that power is already a function of time, your argument still makes no sense. That's like saying you have 2 cars, at any point in time they're traveling the same speed, yet after an hour one car has gone farther than the other. It's not physically possible, an amp putting out a full power sine wave will put out nearly twice that power if the wave is clipped.

And about your $20k speakers being ported or TL, you're comparing car speakers to home speakers. You can't do that, they're in different environments and they act differently. Ported boxes can give a flatter anechoic response than a sealed box, which is why they're often used in a home, because while you do get some room gain, it's very slight. In a car you have a HUGE cabin gain (6-12dB/oct started at the Fs of the car), and that flat anechoic response of a speaker in a ported box gets shot to hell. Meanwhile a sub in a sealed box has a ~12dB/oct rolloff starting at the F3, and mixed with the ~12dB/oct cabin gain you wind up with a much flatter in-car response than a ported box.

[TheSilentChamber]

he shure does know alot for a 15 year old doesnt he? Thats too young to even own a car in all states.

[PaulD]

Originally Posted by TheSilentChamber

he shure does know alot for a 15 year old doesnt he? Thats too young to even own a car in all states.

I guess that explains his lack of spelling/typing skills. I guess when he gets out into the real world and has to get a job - he will find out why communication skills are SOOO important.

[engineer]

ive heard something that underpowering a sub can damage it this way.... if it goes into a range the amp cannot handle, and clipping happenings, then the signal turns into pure DC voltage and fries stuff