H22 Vs. B18C

[RX7_4_Eva]

I was wondering which engine to put in my recently purchased 95' Civic Coupe EX. I was headed toward a B18C1 but then I saw the possibility of a H22 Prelude motor. Can anyone tell me the downfalls of the H22? I know pretty much everything about the B18C, but if you guys have any insightful comments, they would be appreciated.

[Rice-Rocketeer]

B18C1: Probably the most highly sought after swap candidate, this powerful little engine came on the late model Integra GSR and produced a hefty 170hp @ 7600 rpm and 128lbs-ft @ 6200 rpm. It is rather expensive at around $3000-$3500 and they are a little on the rare side considering everyone wants one, but a simple swap and your pocket rocket will be pushing high 14's with a stock engine. Even more by adding the small bolt-ons. And greddy has a bolt on intercooled turbocharger kit that'll give around 240 wheel hp. Which should put you deep into the 13 second range, possibly high 12's. This is the most desired swap candidate.

B18C5: This naturally aspirated wonder came on the late model Integra Type R and produced an even greater 195 hp @ 8100 rpm and about 130 lb.-ft of torque @ 7500 rpm. This is even more highly sought after than the GSR engine. And would in fact be more popular if it wasn't for its $5000+ price tag. But if you could afford it, there are few engines that would be as painless and give you the fastest performance available for the civic. This regarded as the naturally aspirated wonder because it does well producing large amounts of power without the need for snailshell's. Although a turbocharger can be bolted on to this bad-boy, it's generally not recommended, as this is a very high compression engine. If you were to used forced induction on such a high compression engine, you would either have to build it accordingly, have a REALLY good engine management system ($$$) or watch it blow up on the first run. The C1 is better suited for forced induction and would cost less in the long run.

H22A1, H23A1, H22A4: The H23A1 came on the lude Si’s, the highly acclaimed H22A1 came on the 4th gen Si VTEC models and H22A4 came on the 5th generation Si VTEC’s.. And all three engines are MONSTERS compared to what we’re used to. The H22A1 produces a nice 190 hp while the H22A4 produces an even greater 195hp and the H23A1 produces 160hp but they all produce a THICK ASS 160 lb.-ft of torque at relatively low rpm. Giving your 2500lb civic wheel spinning capabilities comparable to a V8 F-body. The whole engine should cost about the same as a GSR swap, $3000-$3500. The down side is the fact that the engine also weighs about 200 lbs. more than the engine you have in your bay now. This effectively makes your weight distribution even worse than what it was before. This causes all types of havoc with your other systems, including suspension, braking and cooling. The engine is also of course very large in size so it's a tight fit into the tiny civic engine bay providing that you make space by removing both air-conditioning and power steering systems.

From talks with several veteran H22 swappers I can give you the overall driving opinion. To make the swap work, first off the springs and shocks in the front need to be stiffened to appropriately handle the extra weight. The overall suspension tuning should concentrate on trying to create heavy oversteer to offset the natural understeer problem the extra weight will create. There is another way to offset the understeer problem but most ppl don't want to go through with it. It involves placing a few hundred pounds of weight in the trunk to even out the weight distribution. But most ppl want to go the other way by stripping everything out of the interior, effectively making it worse. The cooling system will amazingly enough be fine for about 75% of the time. However, on hot days or with spirited driving, the engine can start to overheat itself. For the financially strapped, an extra wide Integra radiator can be swapped in for about $100 that will provide all the extra cooling you need. You can learn about it here: http://www.hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/jsrad/jsrad.html. If you have the extra money, you could swap in an all aluminum thick ass racing radiator with a smaller and more efficient fan and for extra insurance, a low temperature thermostat (160 degree rather than 180) could be replaced. Considering you no longer have air-conditioning the extra space that was once used by the AC condenser could be put to good use and it could be used for an external oil cooler. With this setup you could go uphill mountain racing without fear overheating. The braking system for the most part could work but if you really want to trust your life to stock system, be my guest. If you'd like to upgrade it, the cheap way is to replace the rotors for better heat dissipation (You could either get stock sized cross-drilled or slotted rotors, or you could opt for a bigger rotor kit that uses a relocated bracket so you can use the stock calipers) better brake pads and rear brake disk swap if not already equipped. If you have some money, you could get a 4-piston caliper upgrade with extra large rotors with great pads. Just the thing to stop you at 150 mph. If you do opt for the bigger rotor upgrade, remember that the stock wheels will no longer fit over the larger brakes. Some systems suggest 16” or larger.

Let me remind you that this is all extra $$$. The basic swap still includes about $1000 worth of junkyard parts just to make it work, which includes axles, linkages, ECU, HASport mounts, etc. PLUS the cost of the engine itself. This is definitely not the cheap swap.

[RX7_4_Eva]

Wow, thanks for the extra long post. Your time is greatly appreciated. Given your information, I think i might still want a B18C1 after all. The H22 is so much drama...

[wallstreet]

I am thinking of buying the following Integra 1993 here in the UK, it is Imported looks in spectacular condition, 80k miles only 4 door.


ANYONE know the performance on the B18C engines? 0-60 is it 7.1 secs?

DOHC Vtec 1.8 1797cc..

B18C 1797cc (1005994) 750RPM (MT), 750RPM (AT), 16/750 BTDC (RPM MT), 16/750 (RPM AT), 100PPM. The Engine is marked DOHC VTEC.


Thanks

Niaz

[MexSiR]

The performance depends on the car you put it on.

A CRX with a b18c will run different times than an Integra GSR.

GSRs are rated at 7.1-7.3 0-60 mph
15.2-15.3 1/4 mile.

Its all power to weight ratio.

[T-Racer]

crazy reply man, that gave me so much information.

[wallstreet]

94+ Integra GS-R
(DC2/DB8)

B18C1 1797cc
4 cyl, 16 valve
DOHC VTEC
10.0:1 c.r.
PGM-FI (MPFI)
Dual stage intake
170 bhp @ 7600
Redline: 8200 rpm 128lbs-ft @ 6200

THE B18C is similar, but slightly more power of 180hp but virtually same performance. ANYONE let me know if I am wrong.

Cheers

Niaz

PS hybridhonda is best place for info on engine swaps and compatibility, specs and techs...

http://tech.hybridgarage.com/tech/specs.htm

********************************************

[CivicSpoon]

H22 does not weigh 200lbs more than the B's not even the D's: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550
The motor leans it's weight more to the rear than the b-series and that's why it gives you understeer. In the Preludes the motor actually sits cocked backwards at a slight angle, which probably helps get rid of understeer (and with it being a heavier car).

[SiGNAL748]

I'd go wth the B18C, simply because you've already contemplated it as an alternative to the H22. By now you've probably realized how much of a bitch the H swap is compared to the B.

Most people I know who actually did the h22 swap into their civics were dead set on it, with no other alternatives.

[scallywag]

Originally Posted by wallstreet

94+ Integra GS-R
(DC2/DB8)

B18C1 1797cc
4 cyl, 16 valve
DOHC VTEC
10.0:1 c.r.
PGM-FI (MPFI)
Dual stage intake
170 bhp @ 7600
Redline: 8200 rpm 128lbs-ft @ 6200

THE B18C is similar, but slightly more power of 180hp but virtually same performance. ANYONE let me know if I am wrong.

Cheers

Niaz

PS hybridhonda is best place for info on engine swaps and compatibility, specs and techs...

http://tech.hybridgarage.com/tech/specs.htm

********************************************

Actually the b18c is the j-spec type R motor putting out 210 hp. Although I Don't know what the j-spec gsr motor is called, it might also carry the b18c name. That would be interesting. Does anyone here know what the jdm gsr motor is called?

[kman10587]

In Japan, it's called the SiR, not the GS-R. No clue what the motor is called.

[pheurton-skeurto]

Originally Posted by SiGNAL748

I'd go wth the B18C, simply because you've already contemplated it as an alternative to the H22. By now you've probably realized how much of a bitch the H swap is compared to the B.

Most people I know who actually did the h22 swap into their civics were dead set on it, with no other alternatives.

thats a great explanation...

people do interesting things when they get their minds set on them. if someone really really wants to rip an h22 out of their prelude and put in a d-series or something and theyre dead set, theres not much youre going to do to stop them.

now that youve considered the b18c1, youve officially considered the, IMO, better option. go with it.

[spoolinLSVTEC]

rice raketeer copied and pasted that from the 5th gen civic place. if you are gonna copy and paste, leave it, give props to who you take from. in my opinion i'd go with the b18. the motor is not as much, but with the same mods i think it'd be ill-er. i've been to races where 5th gen civic hatchies with h22's get stomped on by built gsrs. the h22 might seem like a tight buildup at first, but do ur research and you'll find that the b18 is a better choice.

[CivicSpoon]

Originally Posted by spoolinLSVTEC

rice raketeer copied and pasted that from the 5th gen civic place. if you are gonna copy and paste, leave it, give props to who you take from.

He's the one who wrote it you dumbass. How about you pay a little more attention before you make accusations.

[SiGNAL748]

WTF, I just realized this thread was started back in 2002....