A question for the anti-Kerry brigade

[taranaki]

There's no skill in bashing a candidate before he has a presidential track record.Wouldn't it be so much easier to explain why you like the existing President?or is it purely a party alignment thing?

Do please tell us all about the economic miracles, the great humanitarian works,the progress in peace and world harmony thet Dubbya has brought to America........

I hear his next fancy-dress parade will be to watch his own party convention from a firehouse in NY.A nice little show designed to remind everyone of the pivotal role he played in 9/11.

Stay away from the heroes,George.You are not one,and never will be.

[spy604]

nothin more to add to that...cant stand people that cant defend their own position, just attack other people

[Z_Fanatic]

I thought waging the war on Iraq and capturing Saddam was a plus for President Bush/Republicans and many American citizens.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

I thought waging the war on Iraq and capturing Saddam was a plus for President Bush/Republicans and many American citizens.

Are there any measurable benefits that can be demonstrated to have flowed on to the ordinary American citizen?4 years ago,Ivery much doubt that any of them saw 'liberating' Iraq as a priority worth spending billions on.THE KILLING GOES ON-and still the alleged perpetrators of the attack on the WTC have not been brought to justice.And still there are no traces of the WMD that Bush insisted were poised to threaten America. In measururable terms he scores a boig fat zero on both counts.The only measurable factors of this conflict have been the cost in dollars and the corpses.Please...give me something to argue here,because the only thing I've seen so far is excuses and spin.

[Z_Fanatic]

I will not deny it, I am being the devil's advocate here. But I believe the argument back then was "freedom and liberty" were threatened by Saddam's looming existence. So we must arrest him, seize his WMD, and capture ALL terrorists within Iraq. Initially, Canada was mocked as cowards for not agreeing with us. As for France not supporiting us, well the ridicule still goes on (remember "Freedom fries?"). If an American citizen did not condone the judgement and action of President Bush and his Committee, he would be labelled as Anti-Patriotic, Anti-Soldiers, pu**y, etc, etc. And your mild-mannered liberals in the Congress were considered no better/worse than terrorists - eating away the very foundation our nation stands for, like parasites.

Correct me if my reiteration was false or offensive, but that was the mass-insecurity I felt among people less than a year ago.

Benefits:

More oil for years to come.
No more Saddam for us to worry about.
We're now fairly sure and confident that Saddam or the terrorists do not have any WMD assembled.
Many low-level terrorists have been captured.
The computer analyst and "master-mind" behind many of Bin-Laden's operations have been caught by Pakistani Intelligence. Although, it wasn't a bold move for our government to reveal the secret.

[leadfootGTP]

we had no good reason to fear saddam more than others in the first place, terrorist groups have been attacking us for years, and now there are even more of such groups who are very angry with us, and very capeable of harming us, not to mention the countries which we have recently learned actualy DO have WMDs. Mass insecurity is not a good enough reason to go to war.

[Z_Fanatic]

People who supported the war believed that the very assumption of WMD at the hands of Saddam was a big enough reason to initiate an invasion. He was a threat to America and free world. Well that was back then.

Originally Posted by leadfootGTP

we had no good reason to fear saddam more than others in the first place, terrorist groups have been attacking us for years, and now there are even more of such groups who are very angry with us, and very capeable of harming us, not to mention the countries which we have recently learned actualy DO have WMDs. Mass insecurity is not a good enough reason to go to war.

Are you talking about Syria/Iran? We already knew that. Or do we?? lol.

But I am fairly certain North Korea has them. And then of course there's Pakistan, despite being in our good grace.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

People who supported the war believed that the very assumption of WMD at the hands of Saddam was a big enough reason to initiate an invasion. He was a threat to America and free world.

OK.George Bush is knoewn to have WMD,and a history of invading other countries.He's a threat to what others see as the free world.Does that then give us the right to invade his country,label everyone who opposes us as 'fanatics' and 'terrorists', install a puppet government and screw America for as much of its natural resources as we can?

No, of course not.So why the doublew standard.America has far more weapons and a flaky religious loon in charge.Those factors alone make him athreat by his own definitions.

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by taranaki

There's no skill in bashing a candidate before he has a presidential track record.Wouldn't it be so much easier to explain why you like the existing President?or is it purely a party alignment thing?

Do please tell us all about the economic miracles, the great humanitarian works,the progress in peace and world harmony thet Dubbya has brought to America........

I hear his next fancy-dress parade will be to watch his own party convention from a firehouse in NY.A nice little show designed to remind everyone of the pivotal role he played in 9/11.

Stay away from the heroes,George.You are not one,and never will be.

What BS "Please don't tell us about the economic miracles, the great humanitarian works..."

President Bush put through tax cuts. It left money in the pockets of people who EARNED it. Because of that, instead of jobs being lost, people could invest and jobs are getting created. Yes, the deficit went up a few percent but thats to be expected. You cut costs and increase your spending to get the economy moving again. Tax reciepts are higher then they've ever been (after the tax cuts). The bad part is neither party in power can get a handle on the spending.

All social program increased their funding - of course it wasn't enough for some people and it was way to much for others of us. I would like to see education reformed entirely.

Every step along the way that alienated or diminished the UN was fantastic. Excellent work.

Anytime the lefties froth at the mouth, then the president is doing the right thing. Appointing Pickering, creating Homeland Security, selection of his cabinet (including more minorities at higher positions then any previous president), dumping ABM, publicly denouncing KYOTO which the Senate and House would never have approved (why do you think Clinton never signed it and took it to congress?), stomping the Taliban and eliminating Saddam.

Bush served in the reserves (the same as Kerry). Though Kerry tried for three deferments, Bush didn't. Though Bush only flew escort missions against the Soviet Union, he didn't see action in Vietnam. I applaud his service in the same way I applaud all who put on the uniform. While the left didn't see fault with Clinton actively dodging the draft, the can find fault with a man who signed up into service on his own. Again, positive things when the left shows its hypocracy.


Of course after starting out asking for positive things about a canidate - you took pot shots at Bush. Its ok. Its the only thing that the ABB has. No ideas. No plans. Only spite.

What positive things has anyone to say about Kerry?

[Z_Fanatic]

Just to note: The Homeland Security is a joke, every other month the "terror" alert reaches orange or red. It's a BS, it does very little preventing any terrorists from attacking us, while the bigger fishes are prowling with luxury. The entire Bin-Laden family is staying in America in our hospitality and expenses. Not to mention how much money is being wasted in this superficial program.

What exactly is expected of the common citizens when the level reaches red? Does it save us from suicide bombers or home-made bio/chemical terrorists? lol. False sense of security.

Did these type of warnings ever saved thousands of Israeli/Palestinian lives?

[YogsVR4]

The warnings are a catch-22. Damned if you use it and a threat is averted and damned if you don't and an attack does occur.

I'm all for a better method and more specific information, but I'd rather err on the side of caution. Its not a chicken little situation. The threat of attack is real.

[tenguzero]

________________________________________________
Originally posted by Z_Fanatic:
"What exactly is expected of the common citizens when the level reaches red? Does it save us from suicide bombers or home-made bio/chemical terrorists? lol. False sense of security."
_________________________________________________


You're correct in that assumption. The often BS threat alerts, for such things as "general threats" (whatever the hell that title encompasses.) are usually vague, serving to merely spook the American population into locking their doors, loading there guns, staying off planes, more openly accepting sometimes questionable military exercises, and eyeing anyone of Middle-Eastern descent more warily. That being said, the administration really has no alternative. If they DON'T sound the alert, rabid leftists will be all over them should something actually happen, screaming that they didn't warn the American populace with due measures. On the other hand, when they DO raise the threat level, the things I spoke of above stand as the probable result, leading only to harsh criticism of the threat policy itself. They (the government) can't win either way, so, while I don't agree with the use of the threat system anymore than you do, I've come to the realization that they probably have no real alternative, and when faced with the situation at hand, it's admittedly better to be safe than sorry. This leaves it up to the American people to decide for themselves what kind of heed they will pay to the warnings, and respond accordingly.

[Z_Fanatic]

Originally Posted by tenguzero

You're correct in that assumption. The often BS threat alerts, for such things as "general threats" (whatever the hell that title encompasses.) are usually vague, serving to merely spook the American population into locking their doors, loading there guns, staying off planes, more openly accepting sometimes questionable military exercises, and eyeing anyone of Middle-Eastern descent more warily. That being said, the administration really has no alternative. If they DON'T sound the alert, rabid leftists will be all over them should something actually happen, screaming that they didn't warn the American populace with due measures. On the other hand, when they DO raise the threat level, the things I spoke of above stand as the probable result, leading only to harsh criticism of the threat policy itself. They (the government) can't win either way, so, while I don't agree with the use of the threat system anymore than you do, I've come to the realization that they probably have no real alternative, and when faced with the situation at hand, it's admittedly better to be safe than sorry. This leaves it up to the American people to decide for themselves what kind of heed they will pay to the warnings, and respond accordingly.

Your words would suggest that in a way, they're just saving their own asses in disguise of a security measure/protocol. Especially since they invaded Iraq, won, and threat became even larger. While constantly putting the nation in mass-paranoia, and discriminating against a selected few.

You also have to take into account that people who resemble of Middle-Eastern descents aren't necessarily Arabs, and Arabs who do not resemble the typical "towel-head" could be Middle-Easterners.

My plan would be get out of Iraq, work HARDER on catching Bin-Laden and his accomplices abroad and in America. And have a survey to see where majority of Arab/Muslim-American stands in this issue.

[Amish_kid]

Because if he gets elected our country isn't safe anymore...and well have a whole slew of people from down yonder moving up into our territoy.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by spy604

nothin more to add to that...cant stand people that cant defend their own position, just attack other people

Defend that statement!