First time welder

[artistic]

Hi, I'm new to welding and I have some questions. First off what is the difference between mig welding and tig? Or are those just brand names?
I'm looking to buy a welder that isnt too much money,and will be good for body work on cars,for example, If I was repairing a quarter panel that was rusty, or something car related like that. I also want it strong enough to weld a go kart frame. I'm from canada and I heard that princess auto sells welders. Can someone help me? - Andrew

[mike@af]

Im going to research my PM's for you. I had sent this info to someone already.

MIG a TIG welding are two different things, they both weld metal, but they both weld metal in a different way. One is easier, the other takes years of practice. One can be done quickly, the other takes a little longer. One is used to weld thicker metals, one is used to weld thinner metals. One is used to make good looking welds, one is used to make welds. Here I will describe the infinite differences.

MIG Welding/GMAW

MIG welding is a process in which there is an electrode filler wire being added to the two metals at a constant rate. MIG welding stands for Metal Inert Gas. MIG welding is also known as GMAW, Gas Metal Arc Welding. There is an arc to create the heat, the electrode is between the arc and does not melt until it touches the metal work. There is also spray MIG welding which is when tiny droplets are "sprayed" onto the piece for welding thin metals. Dont worry about spray welding, its a tricky process that I dont feel like explaining.

The basics. With MIG welding there is a "gun" in which the arc is created, the inert gas comes out, and the elctrode is dispensed. The electrode is being fed out of the gun when the trigger is pressed and is being fed at a constant rate (ipm, inches per minute). The electrode is being dispensed out of the contact tip part of the gun, the contact tip creates the arc. The inert gas is a sheilding gas, usually a 30% Argon 70% CO2 mixture. There is also a sheilding gas, described below.

Sheilding gas/electrode wire/flux cored wire.The sheilding gas does exactly what its called, sheilds. The gas sheilds the arc, electrode, and puddle to create a nice clean weld (as long as you have practiced the weld will be clean, just because you welded something with sheilding gas doesnt make it clean) hence the name, sheilding gas. When using sheilding gas you need to weld indoors, otherwise the gas can be blown away. When using sheilding gas the welding wire (electrode) is usually much thinner, .025 diameter. Thus being able to weld thinner metals, thin as 24Gage. So you dont want sheilding gas? If you dont want to use sheilding gas there is an alternative, flux cored wire. The flux cored wire has a flux in it that substitutes as sheilding gas. However there are disadvantages. The thinnest metal weldable with flux cored is 22gage. The weld wire is also thicker, usually .035-.040 diameter.

What can be welded with MIG? Steel, thats usually what MIG is used for. It can be used with Stainless Steel, alloy steels, steel, and aluminum (welding aluminum is harder than contacting Igor). Steels are partial alloys. 4130 is the most commonly used steel (4 type of steel/chromoly, 1%alloy, .30% Molybdenum). Steel is easily welded weather you making a table, or a car. Stainless is a little trickier to weld. Aluminum requires a conversion kit and is tricky to weld. There are different electrode wires for each type of metal.

MIG Welding uses. The best thing about MIG is the fact that its wire fed. You can tack weld things in a snap with just a press of the trigger. You can also run super strong (16,000+lb tensile strength) beads. With MIG welding you can do coining as well. You can build pretty much anything with a MIG welder. Most of all, MIG welding is easy to learn.

TIG Welding/GTAW

TIG Welding is also known as GTAW. TIG stands for Tungsten Inert Gas, GTAW stands for Gas Tungsten Arc Welding. TIG is very tricky, and requires years of practice to master. TIG requires the torch that create the arc in one hand, with the filler rod in the other. The arc is created with the torch, and the filler is added to the work with the other hand.

The Basics. TIG welding uses a "torch" instead of a gun, its not a gas torch, but an electric torch. The parts of the torch are the similar to MIG, nozzle in which the sheilding gas comes out, electrode is tungsten (but not added to the filler) and thats about it. Instead of being controled by a setting on the power unit and pressing a trigger, the amperage from the torch is varied with a foot pedal, just like a car.

How It Works. The torch creates an arc between the tungsten electrode and the work (which is grounded). When the arc is initiated the filler rod is added. Remember this is a two handed process. The sheilding gas is surrounding the puddle and arc, and serves the same purpose as MIG welding. The sheilding gas for TIG welding is a must, without it there is not a good weld, if a weld at all. The sheilding gas is pure Argon.

Applications. TIG welding can do almost everything MIG does, and more. However, TIG welding is a lot harder, and not something for beginners. TIG welding is used to weld thinner metals, and aluminum. However when welding thin metals make sure the TIG welder doesnt have a high amp starter, otherwise it will blow a hole right through. You can weld steels with TIG, as well as aluminum (aluminum is much harder to weld than steel).

The end...have questions, ask away.

I suggest going ahead and getting a quality MIG welder. It will cost you a little more. But spending $400USD-$600USD will save you in the long run. Also if you arent into spend a lot of money to start out get a FluxCored/MIG welder. I suggest a Lincoln Electric 135 or Lincoln Electric 175.

[TheSilentChamber]

^^^ eh i'm sure what he said is right, I didnt read it all because eh... ...

but I would start out with a fluxcore that is upgradeable to true MIG. 75/25 argon co2 "golden gas" works good for body work.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by GTmike400

Im going to research my PM's for you. I had sent this info to someone already.

MIG a TIG welding are two different things, they both weld metal, but they both weld metal in a different way. One is easier, the other takes years of practice. One can be done quickly, the other takes a little longer. One is used to weld thicker metals, one is used to weld thinner metals. One is used to make good looking welds, one is used to make welds. Here I will describe the infinite differences.

Hey, MIG welds can be pretty too MIG is used for thinner metals too, although not as thin as what TIG is good for. MIG welding is generally good for 1/4" and thinner, thicker than that is stick work for sure.

Originally Posted by GTmike400

MIG Welding/GMAW

MIG welding is a process in which there is an electrode filler wire being added to the two metals at a constant rate. MIG welding stands for Metal Inert Gas. MIG welding is also known as GMAW, Gas Metal Arc Welding. There is an arc to create the heat, the electrode is between the arc and does not melt until it touches the metal work. There is also spray MIG welding which is when tiny droplets are "sprayed" onto the piece for welding thin metals. Dont worry about spray welding, its a tricky process that I dont feel like explaining.

The basics. With MIG welding there is a "gun" in which the arc is created, the inert gas comes out, and the elctrode is dispensed. The electrode is being fed out of the gun when the trigger is pressed and is being fed at a constant rate (ipm, inches per minute). The electrode is being dispensed out of the contact tip part of the gun, the contact tip creates the arc. The inert gas is a sheilding gas, usually a 30% Argon 70% CO2 mixture. There is also a sheilding gas, described below.

That's kinda a tricky way of explaining it... The contact tip provides current to the wire, and the arc is between the wire and the weld puddle. Because the wire is fed by an electric spool, you just have to move the gun along, and it will push the wire into the puddle.

Originally Posted by GTmike400

Sheilding gas/electrode wire/flux cored wire.The sheilding gas does exactly what its called, sheilds. The gas sheilds the arc, electrode, and puddle to create a nice clean weld (as long as you have practiced the weld will be clean, just because you welded something with sheilding gas doesnt make it clean) hence the name, sheilding gas. When using sheilding gas you need to weld indoors, otherwise the gas can be blown away. When using sheilding gas the welding wire (electrode) is usually much thinner, .025 diameter. Thus being able to weld thinner metals, thin as 24Gage. So you dont want sheilding gas? If you dont want to use sheilding gas there is an alternative, flux cored wire. The flux cored wire has a flux in it that substitutes as sheilding gas. However there are disadvantages. The thinnest metal weldable with flux cored is 22gage. The weld wire is also thicker, usually .035-.040 diameter.

As for the shielding gas, it really depends on what you're welding. For aluminum, you usually want pure argon, although depending on the thickness of the metal, you may want to use an argon/oxy or argon/helium mix. CO2 is an excellent gas for doing thicker guage sheet, because of it's better penetration properties. It's also really cheap, which is good when you can't afford a big bottle of better gas. Probably the best gas for welding thin guage mild steel like you'll find in autobody work, or doing mild tube steel for making chassis is a low argon high CO2 mix, like a 30/70 as Mike pointed out.

Flux core is a good economical way to go, but it produces a "rougher" weld than a microwire with a gas will produce. It's hard to explain, but the fluxcore wires just don't burn as smoothly, you get more spatter, etc, and when you're done there is a lot of slag left over that you have to chip away. Flux core's true advantages lie in welding plate steel, it's faster than stick and provides good penetration.

Flux core wire would do fine for your tube steel, but I'd be wary of using it to do thing guage metal, especially as a novice, you'll tend to burn holes more often than with a microwire.

Originally Posted by GTmike400

What can be welded with MIG? Steel, thats usually what MIG is used for. It can be used with Stainless Steel, alloy steels, steel, and aluminum (welding aluminum is harder than contacting Igor). Steels are partial alloys. 4130 is the most commonly used steel (4 type of steel/chromoly, 1%alloy, .30% Molybdenum). Steel is easily welded weather you making a table, or a car. Stainless is a little trickier to weld. Aluminum requires a conversion kit and is tricky to weld. There are different electrode wires for each type of metal.

I never found MIG welding aluminum all that tricky, you just have to be very careful about your travel speed and smoothness... When I first started welding the stuff, I was working with a pound gun that was havin issues feeding the wire, and at maximum wire speed the thing wouldn't feed nearly enough wire! I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, show it to the instructor, he runs a few passes and says "that gun is fucked!". Good times

My advice is don't tackle aluminum or stainless until you've got MIG welding mild steel sheet downpat. Mild steel is very forgiving, aluminum and high alloy steels are not.

Originally Posted by GTmike400

MIG Welding uses. The best thing about MIG is the fact that its wire fed. You can tack weld things in a snap with just a press of the trigger. You can also run super strong (16,000+lb tensile strength) beads. With MIG welding you can do coining as well. You can build pretty much anything with a MIG welder. Most of all, MIG welding is easy to learn.

I can't agree with you enough on this one

MIG is definately the best way to go for what you want, I'd steer clear of flux core and just spend the extra bucks on the MIG machine to start with.

[duplox]

[artistic]

Thanks for the help guys, I guess im gonna go with a mig.

[artistic]

I was looking at mig welders for sale online at princessauto, and there's one for 399. It says gas only, so does this mean I have to buy it, and a gas tank too?

[mike@af]

Yes. Gas only means its not capable of flux cored. Some areas will require that you have one tank for Argon/CO2 and another tank for Argon. Check with your local welding supply for the mandates.

You will have to buy the tank. They range any where from $80USD-$300USD.

[TheSilentChamber]

most places let you rent tanks insted of buying them.

[mike@af]

Originally Posted by TheSilentChamber

most places let you rent tanks insted of buying them.

Correct, but you still have to put a down payment of roughly $100USD (pending on place and tank size, and type of gas) usually.

[TheSilentChamber]

true.

[CBFryman]

What about Heli Arc welding and Oxygen Actelene Welding...Im not sure about heli arc welding...my dad has a heli arc weldind machen in the agarage that nither of us ever uses...we have a crappy 70amp MIG welder...i normally use flux core wire simply because i have nowhere to weld where there isnt at least a slight breeze strong nough to blow the sheild gas away....we have everything to Oxygen actelene weld with but my dad never uses it and i just use it as a torch when we run out of butane...lol...on top of oxygen acelene welding is not as strong as Mig, Tig, or heli arc welding....what im wondering about is Plasma Cutters...why hte hell are they so expensive...im getting tired of trying to make precice cuts with a Jig saw or saw zaw....im also wondering about metal fabrication "kits" we have the basic bapien hammer and all do to basic auto body work...but im looking to start a chopper project...i know im going to need more than just a baulpien hammer and blocks....also...what is a good price for a bead roller???

[mike@af]

Oxy-Acetylene welding, is very hard to do, not strong, unequal penetration, ugly, and brings up a lot of slag/impurities. Oxy-Acetylene can definately ruin the chemical composition of a steel.

Heli-arc is alright, better than Oxy-Acetylene.

You want precise cuts with a plasma cutter? Plasma cuts are often very rough and still require shaping with a cutting wheel, its just easier and quicker.

There are not many fabrication kits out there. Most of them are sold seperately.

If you are highly intrested in building a chopper I suggest you take some classes on welding, and also get an apprenticeship with a body shop.

Bead-rollers usually start around $300USD. I think you need other tools more importantly though. I have a roller that I barely use.

[CBFryman]

I am actually working at a shop called One Stop that does minor body work, bolt on performance, and car audio.... and i have started messin around with 22awg sheet steel from Lowes just to get a feel for it...ive actually made and riveted a gas tank...its a lil rough and hasnt been soldered or welded or sealed in anyway at all....just riveted...it would actualyl look kinda nice leaded an placed on an old skool bike...as for the bead roller i was J/W because i was looking at an early 2nd generation Rx-7 and the floor boards are rusted...

[CBFryman]

oh ya and plasma cutters are alot cleaner than me trying to C-notch a frame with a sawzaw to install some bags...but i got it done....lol...sorry if i sound stupid...yesterday i had a pep rally, one of hte hardest cross country practices this season, a foot ball game, went to eat out at Beef'o'Brady's after the game, then went to a party....so ya your fon figure im pretty tired...just sitting here waiting for the hurricane