More war crimes in Iraq

[taranaki]

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...8&section=news

[YogsVR4]

Feel free to post the war crimes the thread title was about.

[taranaki]

feel free to justify murdering Iraqis in their own country.

[YogsVR4]

I'll go with "The UN wanting Saddam to continue to pick and choose."

[driftu]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

I'll go with "The UN wanting Saddam to continue to pick and choose."

so has any one heard how the saddam trial is going.

[YogsVR4]

This is one of the latest I had read http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3320293.stm (its over a month old)

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

I'll go with "The UN wanting Saddam to continue to pick and choose."

Saddam has been gone for a year. It's the liberated citizens of Iraq who are being murdered today.

[thegladhatter]

Defending those who were liberated isn not murder....at least not the last time I looked.

[Flatrater]

How about these war crimes Naki!!

NEW Zealand has three main Cold War services - SAS commandos, SIS internal spies and NZCSO (later GCSB) external spies. All three were founded almost simultaneously in 1955-56, and integrated into the allies' operations.
The SAS's role was "unconventional" warfare in US and British resource and influence wars during the Cold War. Within the context of 1970s Middle East oil politics, for instance, our SAS soldiers fought in Oman (the Dhofar War), protecting western oil interests by defending a western-backed sultan against a local uprising. Our SAS helped British forces control Northern Ireland. In South East Asian conflicts they tracked and killed Malays, Indonesians and Vietnamese, to whom they gave the self-justifying label "CTs" - "Communist Terrorists". Today, these would just be "Terrorists". The public rarely hears about these missions, and won't for Afghanistan either.
Meanwhile, the SIS was fighting the Cold War inside New Zealand, by spying on Russian and Chinese diplomats and local "communists". This role grew to include socialist groups, students, Springbok and anti-globalisation protesters, Maori political groups and more. By the 1990s, the SIS had to devise barely credible purposes to justify its existence, such as protecting New Zealand's agricultural secrets. Now, the September 11 attacks and the coming Cold War are reviving its role as the local office for the US and British intelligence agencies. Its chief target will be "terrorism", its powers are being increased and its budget will rise.


Electronic eavesdropping will increase. A week after the September 11 attacks, a New Zealand woman was questioned by the SIS for three hours because of a phone call made to Boston after the attacks. In it she had mentioned an Arab friend - and got onto the FBI's suspect list because one of the hijackers had the same (very common) Arab name. Luckily, she was respectable and her explanations were accepted.Last year, an Afghan refugee in Auckland was not so fortunate. He had his home raided twice and endured six hours of interrogation about a supposed terrorist plan against the Sydney Olympics. The Police said the "plot" was uncovered during smuggling investigations. In fact the SIS had been prompted by US intelligence services, after they noticed a satellite phone call into Afghanistan from the refugee's phone. There was no plot. Both of these cases illustrate the power of the electronic spying systems to which our other Cold War agency - the GCSB - belongs. These phone calls were among millions going in and out of the US and Central Asia, with just a name or country code being enough to trigger the eavesdropping systems.

[Broke_as_****]

Saddam has been gone for a year. It's the liberated citizens of Iraq who are being murdered today

By fellow Iraqis under the banner of a murderous cleric who justifies near genocide in the name of a peaceful religion.

[taranaki]

really?Those are his planes bombin Najaf? That's his depleted uranium littering the country?Bush's definition of a terrorist appears to be anyone other than his puppets who wants a say in their own country.As for murderious clerics....genocidal bible-thumpers are indeed a liability,especially when they have access to WMD and large standing armies.Case in point,George W Bush.

[Broke_as_****]

Originally Posted by taranaki

really?Those are his planes bombin Najaf?

You seem to have the fundamental misconception that you can talk to these people. They have no political agenda, they tossed that when they tossed grenades into aid stations. Sadrs militia and Islamic terrorists as a whole will keep on killing until they are killed because they have no other purpose.

Whatever your opinion, there is war going on. That means people are going to die. On both sides. If you think for one second that the standard operating procedure is to flyby and drop a 2000 pounder where ever the hell it feels like landing then you must be the happiest person in the world, atleast if you believe ingnorance is bliss.

More to the point, modern bombs are ridiculously accurate. How do we know this? Because out of thousands of bombs dropped, the entire world hears about the two that went too far to left. Accuracy: North of 99%. Now how else would you engage an enemy in a populated area? These terrorist have to be stopped, that means they have to be killed, that means it has to happen somehow. Perhaps you would like to go in yourself and flush them out on foot. I'm sure you'll have a nice funeral.

And you know what is his? The car bombs outside police stations, the guys strapping grenades to their chests and running into aid stations and the chants of a thousand ingnorant militia men shouting "Death to the Americians". Schools and oil depots are really such great threats to Islam, aren't they? Well maybe the school is a threat to this form of Islam, these clerics thrive on the ignorance of the uneducated public.

Bush's definition of a terrorist appears to be anyone other than his puppets who wants a say in their own country.

And yet you miss the fact that those people usually are saying something along the lines of: Lets kill all these people over here because I want to make sure my new chemical weapons will work.

As for murderious clerics....genocidal bible-thumpers are indeed a liability,especially when they have access to WMD and large standing armies.Case in point,George W Bush.

Well this is just moronic. Length of time the world has been witness to Islamic attacks on just about everyone? Decades. It took September 11th to finally convince enough people that these groups presented a threat to the world and America specifically. Trying to elminate this threat really does consitute the next Crusade doesn't it?

If anyone who can not see the difference between a measured and restrained campaign targeting those who would kill for no reason and a guy walking into a market place with a bomb and an AK, please have them turn in there genitals, they have no need to procreate

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Broke_as_****

And yet you miss the fact that those people usually are saying something along the lines of: Lets kill all these people over here because I want to make sure my new chemical weapons will work.

Sorry, Bush used this excuse already,made a right fool of himself with it too. That's no more a 'fact' than I am a banana.

Modern bombs,accurate as hell?is that why there have been so many 'friendly fire' deaths.A bomb is onlyy as accurate as the person commanding the operation.And with A commander in chief who appears to be devoid of any integrity, that isn't very accurate at all.

Perhaps ,as a new visitor to this forum,you could explain the link between Sept 11th and bombing the crap out of a small bunch of guys who want their country back?or perhaps you'd like to offer an opinion on the weapons of mass destruction,said to have been 'ready to fire at 45 minutes notice',but then mysteriously disappeared beyond the reach of the world's best surveillance and forensic systems?

Bush is a liar.Vote him out and repair Liberty's reputation.

[Broke_as_****]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Sorry, Bush used this excuse already,made a right fool of himself with it too. That's no more a 'fact' than I am a banana.

You know whats a fact? Thousands of Kurds gassed to death because Saddam wanted to make sure his new toys worked before using them on Iran. How is being yellow by the way?

Modern bombs,accurate as hell?is that why there have been so many 'friendly fire' deaths.A bomb is onlyy as accurate as the person commanding the operation.

Don't let Bushes jumpsuit act throw you off, its the pilot with his thumb on the trigger. And that pilot is very good at what he does. If there were bombs landing in housing developements causing huge casualties, there is too many people in Iraq that the world would not hear of it. I can safely say that the Iraq war is probably has had the least number of friendly fire and civilian deaths of any war ever. You can't lose sight of the fact that in war people will die, deserving or not. The US takes extreme measures to prevent unneeded deaths.

Perhaps ,as a new visitor to this forum,you could explain the link between Sept 11th and bombing the crap out of a small bunch of guys who want their country back?

Right after you explain how wanting to be free translates into using a religious shrine as a bunker and strapping bombs on kids to go blow themselves up when ever they see something that doesn't have "Death to Everyone" written on it, i.e.: Red Cross tents, UN jeeps, Iraqi police stations, market places, you know the really dangerous things in life. All the while doing it in the name of a peaceful religion.

perhaps you'd like to offer an opinion on the weapons of mass destruction,said to have been 'ready to fire at 45 minutes notice',but then mysteriously disappeared beyond the reach of the world's best surveillance and forensic systems?

And perhaps you would like to talk with the intelligence members of the rest of the the world that had come to the same conclusion. Even the Germans aggreed that Iraq had WMD. And let us not forget that Saddam had been hiding them and destroying them before they could be found for over a decade. Not to mention the fact that Iraq is almost entirely a giant desert, into which just about anything can dissappear. And thats before you take into account the months of dicking around with red tape that had to be overcome before the obviously impending war got started.

Bush is a liar.Vote him out and repair Liberty's reputation

Yes, lets thrust about blindly in the dark, as you accuse Bush of doing. Pretty much this is how is works: Iraq will determine US policy and world policy for the next 10-15 years. Bush has to make Iraq work. Just about everything he is and his is administration is depends on it. But this takes time. And despite what you want hear, things are getting better in most of the country. What, did anyone actually think that this was going to be nice and clean and done when the actually ground war ended? Did anyone actually think that any amount of anything could convince all some 6 billion people to agree that Saddam and the Taliban were a threat the world? Does anyone actually think there is some perfect happy sernario to any situation like this?
Did Bush lie. Undoubtly, to what degree is arguable. Does every politican, and human for that matter, lie. Wow, same answer. I don't really like Bush, I don't like how many mistakes hes made. I do like that someone finally said, Enough of this shit, we're going to stop these people. Because, frankly, Iraq and Afghanistan were long over due. For too long these groups and dictators around the world have been allowed to do whatever the hell they please just because it wouldn't be politically correct to get involved or civilians would get hurt. You know how many mass graves they are finding in Iraq? If genocide doesn't justify war, what will?

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Broke_as_****

And perhaps you would like to talk with the intelligence members of the rest of the the world that had come to the same conclusion. Even the Germans aggreed that Iraq had WMD. And let us not forget that Saddam had been hiding them and destroying them before they could be found for over a decade.

two very old and daft excuses.
Bush had 'intelligence' from a multitude of sources,with a multitude of opinions.His 'intelligence' ranged fro a half-baked thesis by a British schoolboy based on information from 1992, to weapons inspectors on the ground,in Iraq telling him that there was no evidence to back up his claims.He simply picked out the evidence that suited his pre-determined plan.
Bush always intended to invade Iraq.It was one of his personal priorities, and the night he was [almost] elected wasthe night that it became a certainty.Sept 11th was not the catalyst,merely the excuse.It is no coincidence that Osama [remember him?] has not been found, Bush only cares about finishing Daddy's war.


As for Saddam 'hiding and destroying weapons'...Puuuhlease.Make your mind up .The big argument for invading was that he had them on hand to use.Having been told exactly the opposite by the UN, any further use of that excuse was nothing more than a lie.If Saddam had them,he would have used them.If he had the capacity to make them,he had plenty of time to build them as defensive weapons while Bush postured and lied to the world.He didn't,and they've never been found.