Info, Ls1 Camaro shedding roller bearings

[flyingguy001]

Any thoughts on this problem would be very appreciative. I have a 1999 Camaro ss, and i recently changed the oil and found a roller bearing hanging out on the drain plug magnet. I talked to a chevy dealer about it, and it looks pretty serious. (taking off the heads and replacing all 16 rollers, and about 3,000 dollars) I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem, and/or have any suggestions. Thanks , Brian

[4onFloor]

haven't dabled much with the LS1, but i dont think you have to pull the heads to get the lifters out.

as far as why they would go bad...could be crappy lifters, oil circulation problem, bad cam lobe etc..just too hard to tell. but $3000 for just a lifter change sounds like a load of shit, i'd get a second opinion

[TechX]

Yeah I doubt very much that the heads would nead to be touched unless there is some other problem that you have not told us. Just a lifter change shouldn't cost more than $1000 for sure. Shit for that money drive over to my shop and I will change them for <$1000.

[flyingguy001]

So where is your shop at? I might be willing to drive over there. The head mechanic at the Chevy dealership was telling me that on ls1 they put the pushrods in a well within the heads. But obviously those guys have been known to be wrong. Thanks for your responses, Brian

[4onFloor]

the pushrods go through the heads on pretty much every other sbc. usually, you pull the valve covers off, loosen the rockers then pull out the pushrods.....a whole 20 minute job.

maybe someone on here who is experienced with the LS1 can tell ya better

[89IROC&RS]

actually guys, you do have to remove the heads to get the lifters out of an LS1, its a shitty deal, but its true. as far as the roller bearing failure, it happens, its part of a machines existance. i would ask about driving habits, maual or automatic and such, but really its insignifigant. if you install new roller lifters, and it burns em up again, then you might have a cronic problem with the engine, but i think that you just had a bearing falure, it happens, life goes on.

[flyingguy001]

89IROC&RS this SS is a manual and its been driven fairly hard, but i wouldnt say that it has been abused. It has 67,000 miles on it and has the oil changed fairly often. Could you let me kow if this is an outrageous quote or not (its at the bottom). And I know that the dealer is the most expensive place to get it fixed, but its a starting point.

lifters 16 x $66.66= $1066.56

gasket kit= $265.59

Bolt set 16 x $14.83=$237.28

16.7 hours of labor = $1336

Other misc.
Totaling $3162.92

Also what level of mechanic does it take to do this job with two people at home?
All the help is really great, thanks everybody, Brian

[89IROC&RS]

flyingguy001, well i was up till the last two weeks a gm certified tech, working for the shop forman, who was also the corvette specialist, however i was just a tech assistant really, as i didnt have alot of hands on experience, ive only worked as a tech for around a year, i tell you this, because mostly on my own, i was able to completely tear down the frond end assembly of a 2001 Z06 remove the cradle, tear down the engine and replace all the piston rings, and put it back together, granted i had the shop forman to go to when i hit a snag i wasnt sure about but with the service manuals, the computer information, and a shop full of experienced techs, theres always a way for a newer tech to find the right answer, weather or not he will, is another question entirely. now for the estamate, lifters, seem fair, seeing as its a dealership price, you can shop around for aftermarket lifters, but there is no guarantee that they will install them, even if you wave the warrantee (which i dont reccomend) i personaly never install customer parts, regardless of the sitation. the gasket set seems a bit steep, but it was a while ago that i did the job, so i might not remember correctly, i dont think they need an entire gasket kit, which includes the oil pan, and such, all they need are intake gaskets, valve cover gaskets, and head gaskets. again, to the best of my memory. the bolt set has me very confused, because there are 15 bolts in each head, aranged in three rows of five. the top five are smaller and can be reused, and the lower ten on each head have to be replaced, so it should be 20 bolts instead of 16, at least if i remember correctly. also, make sure to ask the tech to use a degree dial on the final pass, as it is the correct way to do it, but some techs dont. as for the labor in hours, it seems fair to me, for my job on the Z06, which required removing the oil pan, and pulling pistons i charged 27hours labor. pulling the front cradle wasnt part of the book labor, but i found it was an easier way to do the job rather than pulling the engine out of the car. hope that helps with your situation.

[flyingguy001]

alright i finally found a picture of what was in my oil. This is the needle bearing. Does anyone know if this is from the rockers or the lifters? Thats the dilemma that I am now faced with.

89iroc&rs your info has been very helpful, thanks

here is the link, its not my website, but its what i found
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...52326586IhuyUX

[89IROC&RS]

i could be wrong, but that looks more like a rocker arm needle bearing to me. you should be able to handle that yourself if you have a torque wrench. just pull the coil packs off the valve covers, should be like three or four 10mm bolts and a electrical connector. then undo the four 8mm bolts holding the valve covers on, and pull the valve covers off. then take off the rocker arms and inspect them, count the bearings and all, feel for loosness or roughness during the spinning of the inner ring.

oh and no problem flying guy, its what im on here for.

[4onFloor]

Originally Posted by 89IROC&RS

i could be wrong, but that looks more like a rocker arm needle bearing to me.

I agree

it's hard to tell by the picture, but that looks a little big to be a lifter bearing needle.

i measured a lifter bearing needle from a 3rd gen 350, which i was told are close to the same diameter and height as an LS1, but could be wrong.

the needle measured approx. .510 long and .045 thick. hope that helps

[thomasterrible]

Actually without seeing it that could be either a lifter trunion bearing which is the most likely. Are you hearing ticking to indicate lifter failure? I realize this is an old post but thought I would correct a few things. First if the trunion bearings on the rocker arms of a LS1 is a fairly common issue. Common enough for a TSB to be issued about it. This can be easily resolved by using a Comp Cams trunion bearing upgrade kit for 139 bucks.

If indeed it is lifters than you do have to take off the heads to either get to the lifters or even see most of the cam. But the prices are WAY off. You can get a complete set of 16 LS7 bearings for only 139 bucks too! From Texas Speed for example. This is WAY WAY cheaper than replacement bearings bought from the dealer obvious. The labor is the only part that would be expensive if you don't do it yourself.

So if you take off your valve covers and check the bearings there should be 33 needle bearings in each of the races on each of them, you can look in the sides of the rockers for gaps as if there are many missing you should be able to see that much at least. Then if found use that upgrade kit which changes to roller bearings inside a caged steel race to prevent it from happening again.

If you are getting lifter noise and it is the lifters then just upgrade to that set of LS7 lifters for 139 too. Very cheap for an upgraded lifter. The dealer will want 50 bucks a piece for the same lifters, it is a real rip off. Good luck to anyone with this issue. The design of the LS1 makes the repair more labor intensive but the parts are not if you buy them from the right place. This is june 2012 pricing, current pricing for now.

[TopDragster]

Agreed, the dealer pricing is a total ripoff, if you have an alternate legit source please post!





Top Dragster,
Warren Heaps

Local? Check us out at: http://www.aaapowertune.com

[Tech II]

Wasn't there a TSB for a needle bearing found in the oil pan?