If it's not the brakes, then what IS it?

[artrageous]

No response to my post re: a loud clunking noise yesterday and feeling like the back passenger side brake had locked while moving slowly. Took it to the dealer this morning and in addition to putting on new tires (part of the sale negotiation), he checked the brakes (said they were new) and said that the rotors looked okay, too.

This afternoon it did it again, but not for as long--only a clunk or two. I wasn't applying the brake but was moving slowly and turning into a parking space. Again the sound and feeling that something isn't moving that SHOULD be moving. Hard to describe.

Again this afternoon I'd been driving for a while when it happened, and just like yesterday, it was raining. I know that the brakes used to "grab" on my other car when they were wet, but this seems different.

Being new to the world of SUVs in general and Jeeps in particular, I don't know how to begin to diagnose this. Any suggestions? (Of course the limited dealership warranty that came with this '95 only covers engine and transmission. I'm on my own if it's something else.)

[ChadEbert]

Wheel bearing or hub maybe?? Just an idea.

[artrageous]

Originally Posted by ChadEbert

Wheel bearing or hub maybe?? Just an idea.

Thanks so much for the reply! That gave me another thing to search for in the forum and I found a thread that discusses something similar.

What's strange, though, is that it's only done this when it's been raining. Of course I haven't had it that long (bought it Tuesday) and it's been raining the last 2 days....! And as for tight turns, it actually has a better turning radius than the Ford Contour I traded in, and it's easier to park.

I just hope I'm not looking at a major problem--or even a minor one, at this point. Currently trying to come up with enough $$$ to replace the transmission on my son's Prelude. Sometimes I'm ready to line up every vehicle we've got and push 'em all over the nearest cliff!

[ByronP]

It's hard to say what it could be. maybe some more info would help. What year Jeep? Does it have full time 4wd or can you select between full and part time 4wd? How many miles are on it?
ByronP

[artrageous]

Originally Posted by ByronP

It's hard to say what it could be. maybe some more info would help. What year Jeep? Does it have full time 4wd or can you select between full and part time 4wd? How many miles are on it?
ByronP

Thanks for asking, Byron. I tried to reply last night JUST as the forums became unavailable....

It's a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with 81K and full time 4WD. I bought it on Tuesday (August 10th) and it has a limited 30 day/1200 mile warranty which just covers engine and transmission.



The exterior is in flawless condition and the interior is in very, very good condition. Carfax report came back clean.

Aside from some quirky (and apparently typical) electrical issues, such as blank radio/CD screen, rear lamp failure warning (wrong), I was very impressed with how it drove and handled. It has a tighter turning radius than the car I traded in ('98 Ford Contour) and it's easier to park.

On Wednesday, when it was raining, I was making a sharp right turn into a parking lot when I heard a loud "clunking" sound that seemed to come from the rear passenger side wheel. (My FIRST thought was: "Oh my god, what did I just run over?!") It felt like the brake had locked up. This continued even after the wheels were straightened out. It made like 5 "clunks". I pulled into a parking space (turning left) and stopped, got out, and of course could see nothing.

When I got in and started it again to pull out of the space, it did it again, and then briefly clunked on the front passenger side. I continued to drive it and had no further problems that day, but I called the salesman that I'd bought it from and explained what had happened.

The next morning I drove it back to the dealership to have new tires put on (part of the sales deal). No problem getting there and I asked them to please check the brakes, rotors, etc. (all I knew to ask about). Tires were put on and I was told that the brakes looked new and that the rotors were in good condition.

It did it again that afternoon, but just for a second. Again it was raining and I was making a sharp turn at low speed (in a parking lot).

In searching the forums, I read (and posted in) the thread about a "knocking" sound coming when making turns. IMHO, it's more than a "knock"--it's a "CLUNK"! But even though I've tried to recreate this by making some tight turns, it hasn't done it again. And it hasn't been raining.... Frustrating when problems are intermittent because it's easier to diagnose when something happens all the time.

In the other thread wheel bearings were mentioned as well as other possibilities. I haven't found anyone say they know exactly what it is and how it can be fixed.

I just hope it's not going to be something that's really difficult or expensive to fix.....

[BillD]

Sharon, GC looks great. I'm in the same boat as you
as I just bought a nice white 95 Limited and it hops into parking spaces. Read the thread "tight turns for more info.
BD

[wheels4]

I`m willing to bet your VC is bad . If you can take the front drive shaft out and see if it still clunks.

[artrageous]

Originally Posted by BillD

Sharon, GC looks great. I'm in the same boat as you
as I just bought a nice white 95 Limited and it hops into parking spaces. Read the thread "tight turns for more info.
BD

Thanks for the reference--interesting thread...... I wasn't out much today, but it WAS raining and I couldn't recreate the sound/feel. Does yours ALWAYS "hop into parking spaces"?

Again, it's strange when a problem comes and goes, and the fact that it was raining both times that it did this may have been purely coincidental.

But yes, thanks, it's an awesome looking GC! Years and years ago (probably in '93 when I think this body style was first introduced) I was drooling over one displayed at the mall. (It was white.) Thought it was one of the classiest, sturdiest and coolest looking vehicles ever made--and still do! Just hope it behaves itself mechanically!

[artrageous]

Originally Posted by wheels4

I`m willing to bet your VC is bad . If you can take the front drive shaft out and see if it still clunks.

I wonder though.... in the "tight turns" thread someone said that if the VC was bad it would "shake and vibrate when going straight down the road". And unlike what BillD wrote in this thread, this one doesn't "hop into parking spaces"--wouldn't describe it that way at all. So dunno. I've only had it since Tuesday, August 10th and when I first thought I was dealing with a brake that was locking up, I was concerned that I'd be flying down the interstate and 1/4 of the thing would decide to stop--which probably wouldn't be good for the remaining 3/4!

I'll see if it continues to do this (hope not!!), and if it does at least I've got something definite to ask about if I have to take it into a shop. Thanks for replying!

[porkmclain]

GC has front wheel bearings only and are permenantly sealed. Not a big mechanic, but I wouldn't think that would contribute to the clunk in the rear. A low speed knock would indicate some things, but it would be fairly consistent. You said this occured briefly the few times it happened and then went away. hmmmm. Any noticable vibration when this happened? Or just the clunk sound/feel?

Go out somewhere and do some various size figure 8's to see what it does now. Has this occured in reverse?

I wonder if on the turns the rear axle differential is not working properly, although a little sporadic. The compensation for the inner wheel versus the outer wheel during the turn is not occurring.

anyway that's all i have in mind. Good luck from a backyard mechanic wanna-be who probably doesn't know what he's talking about.

[artrageous]

Originally Posted by porkmclain

GC has front wheel bearings only and are permenantly sealed. Not a big mechanic, but I wouldn't think that would contribute to the clunk in the rear. A low speed knock would indicate some things, but it would be fairly consistent. You said this occured briefly the few times it happened and then went away. hmmmm. Any noticable vibration when this happened? Or just the clunk sound/feel?

Go out somewhere and do some various size figure 8's to see what it does now. Has this occured in reverse?

I wonder if on the turns the rear axle differential is not working properly, although a little sporadic. The compensation for the inner wheel versus the outer wheel during the turn is not occurring.

anyway that's all i have in mind. Good luck from a backyard mechanic wanna-be who probably doesn't know what he's talking about.

Nope, no vibration--just the sound and feeling that the back passenger side wheel wasn't moving and was "stuck". And since it then happened with the FRONT passenger wheel (same episode) I was totally clueless. When I was backing out of my driveway the other day, there was a bit of hesitation that made me THINK that it was going to happen while in reverse, but it didn't.

It hasn't happened since Wednesday, even though it's been raining some (as it was doing both times it happened) and despite me TRYING to make it do this! Intermittent problems make me crazy! I'll try your figure 8 idea to see if I can provoke it into acting up!

As I've posted, I just bought this on Tuesday, August 10th. I have a limited 30 day/1200 mile dealership warranty that just covers engine and transmission, so I'd like to at least try to prove or rule out that either of these things are faulty. IF it's the VC as someone else suggested, that might be covered, but I'm not convinced it's that.

Again, I sure hope there's nothing seriously (or expensively!) wrong with it. School starts in 2 weeks so it's got to be ready to run dependably (I'm a teacher), plus most of my $$$ is going to help keep my sons' cars on the road. Always something!

[YtseJam454]

You've got yourself a bad Viscous coupling. A bad VC will NOT cause vibrations as you go straight down the road, that guy didn't know what he was talking about. The VC may cause a binding feeling when turning, a clunking or banging as you turn regardless of whether you are braking or not. The hotter it gets the worse they get. Drive it for a long period of time and see if it gets worse.

[artrageous]

Originally Posted by YtseJam454

You've got yourself a bad Viscous coupling. A bad VC will NOT cause vibrations as you go straight down the road, that guy didn't know what he was talking about. The VC may cause a binding feeling when turning, a clunking or banging as you turn regardless of whether you are braking or not. The hotter it gets the worse they get. Drive it for a long period of time and see if it gets worse.

I've been reading through the other thread again about "tight turns" and if it IS the VC, it's something that MAY be able to be replaced without totally rebuilding or replacing the transfer case, right? Do you suppose this is something that would be covered under the "transmission" part of the limited warranty? Not sure how to approach the dealer with this--he was happy to let me assume (initially) that it was just a problem with the brakes being wet....

What I've learned about cars over the years has mainly been a result of things that have gone wrong. I always try to be as informed as possible (thanks to the internet and forums like this!) before going to a mechanic because they automatically assume that I know nothing. (Fortunately, most of the ones that I've dealt with recently are reputable and respect the fact that I'll check and double check any of the work that they recommend.) Still no desire to become a mechanic--lol--but because I AM interested in safety, dependability and $$$, it pays to be informed!

Again, though, is the condition of the VC something that can be seen without tearing everything out? Is it something that visibly looks worn or damaged? Just wondering what's going to be involved (other than my description of what it's doing) in making an accurate diagnosis before approaching the dealer that I bought it from. And either today or tomorrow I want to run it like crazy to see if I can provoke it into acting up again. Also need to call the local Jeep dealership to check about the two recalls that were never fixed. Not sure if there's a time limit on that or not....

[YtseJam454]

Well The VC is a sealed unit. It has a welded case and it's internal in the transfer case, so visually no, you will not see a problem. Take the tech for a ride with you and explain and show him what happens. If they claim it's normal go to a competent garage and get an estimate, then bring it back and threaten to sue and file a claim with the department of motor vehicles and with the better business bureau. If it's bad they need to acknowledge it.

[BillD]

Sharon, as Jam 454 and others stated, drive it till it's hot.(Dry conditions) Then try to pull into a tight parking spot. You'll feel and hear binding noises. This is the time to show the sellers. It's a powertrain warrenty issue. My mistake when I test drove mine was I didn't get it hot enough to act up. I drove it in tight circles in a parking lot trouble free. It's after I bought it and really ran it where the problems began. I'm gonna change out my VC as I'm convinced that what it is. I've had many Jeep Cj's and I know what they do in 4wd on dry pavement, just what the GC is doing.
Let us know how you make out.
Good Luck
BD
BD