The Sudan is falling apart

[YogsVR4]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...sudan_report_3


GENEVA - A top U.N. human rights investigator Friday released a scathing report that blames the Sudanese government for atrocities against its civilians in the Darfur region and says "millions of civilians" could die.

It is beyond doubt that the Government of the Sudan is responsible for extrajudicial and summary executions of large numbers of people over the last several months in the Darfur region, as well as in the Shilook Kingdom in Upper Nile State," said Asma Jahangir, the U.N. investigator on executions, in a report based on a 13-day visit to the region in June.

The current humanitarian disaster unfolding in Darfur, for which the government is largely responsible, has put millions of civilians at risk, and it is very likely that many will die in the months to come as a result of starvation and disease," said Jahangir, a Pakistani lawyer.

.
.
.

Last week the U.N. Security Council passed a resolution giving Sudan 30 days to curb the pro-government Arab militias blamed for the violence in Darfur or face diplomatic and economic penalties.

.
.
.

I'm going to stop there. I have to shake my head and laugh. Tens of thousands have been murdered and the UN is ready to whip out some serious whoop ass on the perpetrators using their fantastic diplomacy. The Sudan is fucked - they better get their act together because sometime in the next decade, a dozen or two resolutions will get passed.

[Hyatus]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Last week the U.N. Security Council passed a resolution giving Sudan 30 days to curb the pro-government Arab militias blamed for the violence in Darfur or face diplomatic and economic penalties.

or what? Is the un gunna give them a formal "NO NO" and shake thier finger? God i hope a democrate is in office when this shit hits the fan, i dont like being 19 and always haveing the threat of a republican president wanting to jump into a war so he gets rich. That and the threat that if theres a draft i will be the first to go( ya, i get to got fight for nothing i'm so excited)

sorry to go off topic yoggs

[YogsVR4]

You're worried about the draft and want a democrat in office? You may want to take a look at which political party has brought up the idea of the draft. I'll give you a hint - it wasn't the one using the moniker GOP.

[Flatrater]

Last week the U.N. Security Council passed a resolution giving Sudan 30 days to curb the pro-government Arab militias blamed for the violence in Darfur or face diplomatic and economic penalties.

That quote needs to be in a joke thread! UN resolutions are a waste of time and will prove fatal to millions before any impact will be felt. Only resolution I support is the one to close the UN down for good.


CBASS

BTW total aid to the Sudan area by the US is at $144,208,062 dollars and climbing.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

That quote needs to be in a joke thread! UN resolutions are a waste of time and will prove fatal to millions before any impact will be felt. Only resolution I support is the one to close the UN down for good.


CBASS

BTW total aid to the Sudan area by the US is at $144,208,062 dollars and climbing.

Just a couple of comments on this Sudan mess. (Long post but please stay with me here).

Flat, the US aid is not as philanthropic as you may think, and it certainly is not actual money.

Very often, foreign aid is tied into domestic policy. This goes for most countries, not just the US. For example, most wetern nations subsdise their agricultural industries. Often, surplus production (which the government has essentially bought, in order to keep prices reasonable,) is shipped overseas and donated. The donor country gets fed and the farmers get their money so they can survive and prosper.

The point here is that the actual money spent was already reserved for a government subsidy, and it actually never leaves the donor country.

Of course foreign aid is part of foreign policy.
The Sudan has LOTS of oil. Now, do you know who has the majority control over exploiting those oil reserves? The Chinese!

The largest recipient of US foreign aid, after Israel is Egypt. The US essentially buys off the moderate Egyptian government, to keep them equipped, in power and cooperative. It's a policy that works. As an example, we have hardly heard a squeak out of Egypt during the entire Iraqi campaign.

The US would love to do the same for Sudan; help them out in exchange for their cooperation, stability and assistance. Without this kind of foreign assistance and interference, the Sudan will become another Ethiopia.

Now, as you may recall, the Ethiopian famine which killed millions in the '80's was another largely artificial crisis. They had a 30 year civil war and the government in Addis Ababa starved the northern part of the country because that is where the rebels were. (Neighbouring Kenya had the same dry weather conditions and poor harvests at the time, but nobody died of starvation there)

So, the upshot is the West has an opportunity to make an ally, but they actually would have to get a government to stop a genocide. The oil would make a nice incentive for some US or other western nations to provide some aid, but since the Chinese have all the oil rights, no one wants to throw money at this thankless problem.
In the meantime, the UN resolutions are typically useless (as usual)

What a mess.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

CBASS

BTW total aid to the Sudan area by the US is at $144,208,062 dollars and climbing.

US foreign aid to Israel is now over $80 billion total. When counting the interest paid on Israels loans by the US, it comes to over $130 billion.

http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

Maybe that money would be better spent in countries that actually NEED it, or perhaps in the US itself. $130 billion buys a lot of health care, textbooks, roadwork, etc.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by Cbass

US foreign aid to Israel is now over $80 billion total. When counting the interest paid on Israels loans by the US, it comes to over $130 billion.

http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

Maybe that money would be better spent in countries that actually NEED it, or perhaps in the US itself. $130 billion buys a lot of health care, textbooks, roadwork, etc.

So that is 2.36 billion dollars a year for Isreal. Not much according to one of your other posts. And Isreal gets a meager 12.2% of US aid every year! The amount I quoted was this year alone in aid.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

Just a couple of comments on this Sudan mess. (Long post but please stay with me here).

Flat, the US aid is not as philanthropic as you may think, and it certainly is not actual money.

Very often, foreign aid is tied into domestic policy. This goes for most countries, not just the US. For example, most wetern nations subsdise their agricultural industries. Often, surplus production (which the government has essentially bought, in order to keep prices reasonable,) is shipped overseas and donated. The donor country gets fed and the farmers get their money so they can survive and prosper.

The point here is that the actual money spent was already reserved for a government subsidy, and it actually never leaves the donor country.

Of course foreign aid is part of foreign policy.
The Sudan has LOTS of oil. Now, do you know who has the majority control over exploiting those oil reserves? The Chinese!

The largest recipient of US foreign aid, after Israel is Egypt. The US essentially buys off the moderate Egyptian government, to keep them equipped, in power and cooperative. It's a policy that works. As an example, we have hardly heard a squeak out of Egypt during the entire Iraqi campaign.

The US would love to do the same for Sudan; help them out in exchange for their cooperation, stability and assistance. Without this kind of foreign assistance and interference, the Sudan will become another Ethiopia.

Now, as you may recall, the Ethiopian famine which killed millions in the '80's was another largely artificial crisis. They had a 30 year civil war and the government in Addis Ababa starved the northern part of the country because that is where the rebels were. (Neighbouring Kenya had the same dry weather conditions and poor harvests at the time, but nobody died of starvation there)

So, the upshot is the West has an opportunity to make an ally, but they actually would have to get a government to stop a genocide. The oil would make a nice incentive for some US or other western nations to provide some aid, but since the Chinese have all the oil rights, no one wants to throw money at this thankless problem.
In the meantime, the UN resolutions are typically useless (as usual)

What a mess.

So you are saying growing surplus food and giving it to another country isn't considered aid in your eyes. People are getting fed, yes the crops might of been grown anyway. Its like killing 2 birds with one stone. Now if the US had no place to put the food the Subsides would stop and I am for that. The government still spent the money for the food and it is still given away.

Now what is wrong with I will scratch your back if you scratch mine? Of course we do you a favor you should do us a favor its the right thing to do.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

So you are saying growing surplus food and giving it to another country isn't considered aid in your eyes. People are getting fed, yes the crops might of been grown anyway. Its like killing 2 birds with one stone. Now if the US had no place to put the food the Subsides would stop and I am for that. The government still spent the money for the food and it is still given away.

Now what is wrong with I will scratch your back if you scratch mine? Of course we do you a favor you should do us a favor its the right thing to do.

I agree with you and your comments.
My point is that its misleading to place a dollar value (as you are fond of quoting) on ALL the aid going to various countries. It is, in part, a self serving publicity stunt for the donor nation, whether its the US, or Canada or whoever, since the money stays in the donor country.
However, the food is required and welcome. Self serving aid is still aid.