Timing belt being changed, might as well change...what else in that area?

[Shpyder]

My 1997 GS-T Spyder is having its timing belt done pretty soon. Considering that at 120K miles, the previous owner changed nothing but the t-belt back at 60K miles, what other things should I change while the cover is off?

I know the water pump, and balance shaft belt...any tensioners etc? Please give me list of things that might as well be changed since I'm already paying for the labor to take off the t-belt. Thanks.

[Shpyder]

Somebody? Anybody!

[joemathews]

Lol sorry, I've been at an odd job all day away from the computer....

Damn, labor for timing belt will be expensive, so you may as well do a few more things. You're right on track with the timing belt and balance shaft belt...I would do the water pump as well if you don't have any record of it ever being replaced.

You should also probably get a new auto-tensioner and tensioner pulley, as if either of those parts fail, you could be in bad shape. And with 120k, those are some worn parts Also give the mechanic clearance to replace any other power belts that are cracked or worn out, unless you think he'll try to rip you off

If I were you, I'd ask to hang around the garage while they do the work. Since you're not diving in and doing this yourself, you could watch and learn, with the added benefit of not royally fucking something up (like I almost did when I tried to time my engine for the first time ). Some larger shops won't let you do this, and I am certain dealerships won't. But if it is a trusted family mechanic or such, it is worth asking. Be sure to tell them that you don't know anything about cars, and merely want to observe a professional to learn something about your car, so they won't think you'll be a "backseat driver" while they're working

You should also read this VFAQ article carefully:

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

If they let you watch, you'll see what they are doing and if they are doing it anything close to right. If they don't, you'll have an idea of what they are doing/have done to your car, and will have learned something without bending valves or suffering any similar timing nightmare!

Last but not least--not to scare you, but 80% of mechanics will not do the timing belt replacement correctly on our cars. Good old-school mechanics and Mitsubishi dealership mechanics will have a better chance of knowing wtf they are doing...but I would never, NEVER take my car to a Chrysler dealership to be serviced. Those mechanics work on Sebrings and Voyagers, not turbo DSMs . Despite the fact that 80% of mechanics will probably leave something out or shortcut a step, probably 75% of the time, no ill effects will come of their ignorance. So don't worry--the burden is on THEM if they mess something up. Just be mindful of how your car runs when you bring it in, and how it runs when it leaves, and address any problems that might spring up with the shop immediately.

I hope I haven't forgotten anything, but I'm sure someone will fill in the blanks if I have !

[Shpyder]

Thanks man, that really helped! Thankfully the mechanic is 100% trusted and been around for ages. He does all the custom work on my ride and always charges me about 50-60% of the competitions price.

So the T-belt, balance shaft, tensioner pulley, water pump, auto-tensioner....how about the oil pump? Its stock at 120K miles...?

I have oil collected in the spark plug wire area ... i think ill replace the head gasket and the...theres one more gasket.seal...valve seal? the deal thats notoriuos for leaking asides from the head gasket... damn i just got off work im so exhausted cant think straight!! arrghhhh! lol.

[joemathews]

Oil in the sparkplug area is a very common problem, and there is absolutely no need to change the head gasket over it. However, you can ask your mechanic how much more it would cost, if you feel like the head gasket might go soon. The gasket itself isn't cheap, but installation is what really kills usually. If you have upcoming plans for the car (i.e. turbo upgrade in the next few months), or want to have the piece of mind that there is a new head gasket in there, go for it.

I don't believe the oil in your spark plug cover area could be anything to do with the HG however. When I had this problem, I had a hairline crack in the valve cover (very small in one of the corners). I would clean out the oil with a rag and take a close look for cracks, particularly around the bolts. They may be very small, so keep your eyes peeled . If there are none, some people blame this on a bad valve cover gasket, when oil leaks into this area through the bolt holes.

The valve cover gasket is an easy part to change, and your mechanic could do it cheaply, or you could try it yourself. If you can read instructions, you can replace the valve cover gasket!

[Shpyder]

VALVE cover gasket, thats it! I knew that was it, somewhere in the back of my mind, lol. Valve seal valve GASKET. aight. Thanks! I better everything done for peace of mind; the old owner had this car for 115K miles, and didnt take extra DSM quality care of it. thanks!

[kjewer1]

I usuallt recomend:

main tbelt
balance belt
hydraulic auto tensioner
tensioner pully
idler pulley
bshaft tensioner pully
water pump
any seals that you need to change (cams, crank front main, oil pump, front bshaft), but only if they are leaking. Some have require removing the oil pump cover/front case to change which adds considerable labor, though the parts are only a couple bucks.

[Shpyder]

thanks both of you.

I was looking to change the head gasket myself though...Im not an expert, never opened an engine before, but it seemed easy enough when I went thru Chilton's manual... release fuel pressure, take out bolts, PCV valve, cables etc, get the head out and change the gasket, some sealer....should I do it? What things do I need to be careful of (besides setting the car on fire and killing myself somehow)?

P.S. is'nt a HEAD gasket the same as a VALVE cover gasket?

[joemathews]

No, head gasket and valve cover gasket are completely different. The valve cover gasket is simply a rubber gasket that fits just underneath the valve cover (the very top rectangular piece of metal you see when you look at the engine). You'll see like 12 bolts when you look at the top of your engine. These are the only bolts you need to take out to change the valve cover gasket, and besides this all you need is to unplug a couple of vac lines, a screwdriver to pry it off with, and some RTV to seal the gasket. And you would need a torque wrench to tighten the bolts back down to spec. Haynes or Chilton manuals should give plenty of instruction to do the VC gasket correctly.

The head gasket is completely different--it sits between the head of the engine (where you'll find all of the valves, the camshafts, etc.) and the engine block (where the pistons and connecting rods are found that turn the crankshaft).

Leaky valve cover gasket=annoyance and ugly oil leaking down the side of your head. Leaky head gasket=oil in your coolant, exhaust bubbles in your coolant, possibly overheating car, white smoke out of your exhaust, coolant in your cylinders, etc. MUCH worse problem

If you are paying a mechanic to do the timing belt, he will be doing most of the work necessary for the head gasket change as well. I've never done one on my car, but when I changed the water pump Kevin said I'd done 95% of the work for changing the HG. And a timing belt change vs. a water pump change is very close to the same thing--the biggest hassle is the cramped space and retiming the engine. All he'll have to do besides what he's doing anyway is pull the head, put the new gasket in, and put everything back together. He may have to take off the power steering pump and alternator, and the mounting brackets, but that shouldn't be a big deal. Additional labor for the HG shouldn't be more than about an hour's worth of work...maybe $100 in extra labor if he's really slow. $160 total for a HG job is a bargain though, trust me. If you get it done later if/when you need it, it will run you $400+. It is up to you whether or not you need it or want it though...but with 120k miles and you just beginning to mod the car...it may be worth the money now.

If you have this done, many people recommend ARP head studs. Kevin or Jake can tell you more about them, as I have no experience with them (and hopefully won't anytime soon ).

If you have no experience and don't have friends around who could guide you through if you get into a jam, I wouldn't try the HG yourself. Start with replacing the valve cover gasket. That is an easy job that gives you some good practice taking your car apart, and putting it back together in better condition than it was when you started. And that is a gratifying feeling

[kjewer1]

Nope, dont even have to pull the PS pump and all that. I just remove everything connected to the intake mani, take out the 4 bolts holding the turbo to the exhaust mani (the DP and oil return lines will hold the turbo up), and remove the radiator hoses, injector wires, and other things attached to the head. Then just pull straight up with one hand on each manifold and remove it all in one piece (dont put the head down on anything hard, you'll bend valves. Have the cam gears at the marks (dowel pins at 12:00 and support it so the valves dont touch anything. Its a heavy bastard, so have some help handy) Clean everything up, put the HG on, drop the head back on, and redo everything you undid. Its a big job, even on my car. I actually prefer to pull the motor since its much easier to do all the tbelt stuff. However, if you have a 2g with 2g motor, get the tbelt tensioner tool (or make one from M8x1.25 threaded rod, see the vfaq) and compress the tensioner. The zip tied the tbelt to the cam gears, and remove the cam gears. Now you WONT have to redo the tbelt job. I forgot all about this method till jsut now, since I cant do it with a 1gina2g. This is known as the "RRE method" and they have a page with instrustctions on the site somewhere. That'll save you a ton of work, and potential slip ups. But if your car needs tbelt work anyway (60k miles, looks beat up, etc) now is the time to do it.

And I HIGHLY recomend switching to ARPS. STock bolts should not even be reused, since they stretch (torque to yield style bolts). ARPs will set you back like 75 bucks for 7 bolt, 90 bucks for 6 bolt. GEt them from summit, they ship them fast. You wont have to worry about the stock "stretchy bolts" porking you at high boost someday... Search on www.racingknowledge.com for a thread called something like "ARP head stud info" where I posted an absolutely shitload of info on using ARP studs. Do it right the first time, learn from my mistakes

Good luck, either way...

[EclipseRST]

that is a very helpful post when changing out a HG... for a newbie it will take you around 4-5hrs, i can usually get it done in 2 to 2-1/2hrs! but thats just cause i do it every other FUCKIN WEEK! lol good luck and i hope it goes well!

[Shpyder]

dually noted, and everything saved. this thread is going to be a lot of help! thanks everyone!

[srg_shine]

How do I install and adjust a timing belt tensioner in my 1993 Nissan pickup?

[EclipseRST]

Good question... WRONG AREA! Go the the Nissan forum!

[guitarXgeek]

Just one more suggestion to add on to everyone elses' here... If you've got oil in your spark plug well area like you said, you most likely have a bad oil cap gasket. You can either buy a new gasket at the Mitsu dealership (I've yet to find an autozone or such that carries this gasket by itself) or buy a brand new oil cap from autozone or whatever - like $5 I think.