working w/ lead as a filler

83-944 · #1 08-01-2004, 05:13 AM

I'm in the (very tedious) process of restoring a 62 VW Ghia.

As I was attempting to weld on a replacement front clip, I noticed when I hit near the front trunklid seam, the metal around would melt and sag away. This made it impossible to get the clip to weld to the front trunk lid seam like I needed and now the clip is depressed about 1/8" to hold to the body. The lead that was around has melted into the trunk lid groove. I've ground out most of the slag but I need a suitable filler to build up the area.

Bondo won't work as it doesn't carry very much strength and the lip edge must be strong. I've tried epoxy resin, but its a bit too brittle and would crack on impact.

This leads me to lead. Does anybody have any stories, other recommendations, how to knowledge, anything?

I'll try to get pictures small enough to post.

mike@af · #2 08-01-2004, 09:44 AM

It sounds like you have used lead already, Im confused. Whats the problem?

83-944 · #3 08-01-2004, 08:04 PM

In 1962 they used lead. I have not even attempted to try using lead as a filler yet.

So, does anybody have any info on melting it in? Anything helpful is appreciated.

burnM · #4 08-02-2004, 02:55 AM

Far as I know, you have to remove the old lead first, something about old lead being weak and tired.

Do that by heating it with an oxy/acetylene torch and then wiping off with a thick towel. It sort of beads off in chunks.(kinda neat to see actually)

You're going to need wooden smoothing tools to do the job right, and various files of different grades and contours to get the shape you're after. Also lead rods (of course) and a torch.

Imagine if you will, trying to lay out a big blob of solder and then smoothing it with wooden 'spatulas' and more heat to a close enough shape. After that, follow up with the files to get the desired finished product.

It is a very time consuming and tedious way to fill weld seams or body imperfections. I think you can pick up a kit from the Eastwood company that has just about everything you need to do the job, except for the torch.

Good luck in your endeavour, and ket us know how it turns out!

MagicRat · #5 08-02-2004, 03:23 AM

The same thing happened with my '68 T-Bird. All the roof seams were leaded.

Burn is correct. to restore this correctly requires using body lead.
An area that is going to be leaded must be completely clean. You need to treat the area first with a 'tinning 'compound, which primes the area. Its a very thin layer of acid, ground lead and tin. This allows the lead to stick to the metal.

Also you need to coat the wood paddles in something so the lead won't stick to the wood. ATF works fine although the purists use beeswax.

As you shave off the lead filings you can sweep them up and re-use them. Thats the fun thing about lead. If you don't like the contour, unlike Bondo, you can reheat it a bit and try again.
Use a propane plumbers torch to heat lead, at first until you get used to it. An oxy-acetylene torch might overheat the lead. It will vapourise above 900 deg. F which is really really harmful to breathe.

Cbass · #6 08-02-2004, 05:08 AM

I wouldn't recommend using a propane torch, there just isn't enough heat. You can pick up a good turbo torch with a MPS gas cylinder, and that should be enough heat, although it will take longer than it would if you had oxygen as well.

I'm of the opinion that Acetylene is overrated, and that oxy-MPS works just as well, and is easier to handle for a novice. Bernzomatic makes a kit for about $50 USD that comes with a torch, oxygen and MPS cylinders, and screw type valves. They claim to be regulators, but I don't see how they could fit a diaphragm in there to maintain the pressure.

The iffy thing about using a welding torch for this kind of job is applying too much heat. If you heat the metal too much, you'll start to distort it, and once a body panel is distorted from heat, good luck getting it smoothed out again.

83-944 · #7 08-02-2004, 10:32 AM

Thank you all for your assistance.

Is ther any way to "blend" the old lead into the new lead to save me from having to rebuild the entire trunk seam?

I had a chit chat w/ a local auto body guru who told me there's an aluminum based auto body filler. I'm debating over origionality v/s personal skill. He can supply the lead and tools to do this right so i think I'll give lead a try and have alu. filler as a backup option.

This could be fun! Thanks again.

MagicRat · #8 08-02-2004, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 83-944

Thank you all for your assistance.

Is ther any way to "blend" the old lead into the new lead to save me from having to rebuild the entire trunk seam?

I had a chit chat w/ a local auto body guru who told me there's an aluminum based auto body filler. I'm debating over origionality v/s personal skill. He can supply the lead and tools to do this right so i think I'll give lead a try and have alu. filler as a backup option.

This could be fun! Thanks again.

Just heat up the old lead so its soft and pliable and blend the new lead in.
As for originality....there were Ghias made in the tens of thousands, its not a rare car by any stretch, so keeping it original is more for fun and personal satisfaction that anything else.

Since the paint is going to be modern and chemically quite different than the original, there is no harm in using modern fillers, especially if its going to bet the job done better, quicker an easier.

83-944 · #9 08-03-2004, 06:54 AM

Excellent points. Not a rare car unless you're looking for body parts.

mike@af · #10 08-03-2004, 08:47 AM

I got tired of reading posts, I think Connor shot around other gases. But I do lead work with some MAPP.

Rod&Custom · #11 08-03-2004, 05:39 PM

I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but lead is a very pricey little experiment. I realize that you need to use lead, but don't be surprised when you see the price, because it isn't anywhere near Bondo. They used to use it because there was nothing else better, and it was cheap, but anymore it really isn't a practical choice(except in your case of course). It seems that you have been lead(sorry, accidental pun) in the right direction, so good luck!

mike@af · #12 08-03-2004, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod&Custom

I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but lead is a very pricey little experiment. I realize that you need to use lead, but don't be surprised when you see the price, because it isn't anywhere near Bondo. They used to use it because there was nothing else better, and it was cheap, but anymore it really isn't a practical choice(except in your case of course). It seems that you have been lead(sorry, accidental pun) in the right direction, so good luck!

About $2-$3USD for a 1/4lb. To just mess around and experiment pick up some balancing weights.

TheSilentChamber · #13 08-11-2004, 05:52 PM

Yeah like they said, I think Eastwood even sales a book on the process. Its pretty much a lost art now sence its rarely used. Also MAPP gas is a mixture of propane and aceteline (sorry on my spelling), or thats what I was told in a welding class I took a few years ago.

mike@af · #14 08-12-2004, 04:22 PM

MAPP is MethylAcetylene Propediene

Markgase2000 · #15 08-17-2004, 09:16 AM

I know all about using lead filler , one of the most dangerous body fix methods Ive ever seen , I wont do it personally I just oxy/acetaline steel rather than makin a mess with lead and a body file. Acid , bee's wax lead paddle and a bar of treated lead thats safe to handle untill its scratched or melted. Yuuuk what a messy job I hated that stuff lol.

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD