is it really worth the money?

[JCCR]

hey guys i found this info what do yall think. how true is this info



The next round of upgrades gets expensive. You can increase your ZXTT's
horsepower to 460-500 horsepower by running additional boost. However, to
safely run additional boost, you must install larger turbos, larger intercoolers,
and larger injectors. This will set you back $5,000-$6,000. To be honest,
I'm not convinced it's worth the investment. In one of my stop light races,
I ran across a 500 horsepower ZXTT. We raced two times for about 15 seconds each time. We were dead even each time. How could that be? A 500 HP ZXTT is no quicker than a 400 HP ZXTT? Well it doesn't seem to be.

Published times from enthusiast magazines and drag strip time slips support this observation. A 400 HP ZXTT covers the 1/4 mile in 13.1-13.2 seconds at 108-110 MPH. A 460-500 HP ZXTT runs the 1/4 mile in 13.0-12.9 seconds at 110-112 MPH. Not much difference - especially for $5,000-$6,000.

The problem lies in the torque curve produced by the larger turbos. Larger turbos are very peaky, producing peak torque at approximately 5,600 RPM. On the other hand, stock turbos have a long flat torque curve, with peak torque occurring at only 3,600 RPM.

Jim Wolf Technologies has two potential solutions to the problem mentioned
above. One proven solution is running nitrous oxide at low RPMs until the
turbos spool up. The staged nitrous setup is controlled by the upgraded ECU
to avoid detonation. Stillen also sells the staged nitrous package. Jim Wolf
also recently introduced a set of hybrid turbos (derived from the stock
turbos) that develop peak torque at a lower RPM. However, to my knowledge
there are no magazine tests or drag strip times available at this time to
document the performance of these turbos.

If 500 HP is simply not enough, Jim Wolf has produced one car that produces
625 horsepower on the dyno. The car has heat treated forged pistons, runs
22 psi., and also has the staged nitrous injection system. About six months
ago, I unwittingly raced this car from about 80-120 MPH. He blew my doors
off. It was absolutely no contest. Several months later, I was fortunate
enough to get a ride in this car. It was incredible. I've never experienced
acceleration like that before. But, when I asked the driver how long the
engine will last, his reply was "we don't know yet." If you have $20,000
and are not worried about engine life, maybe this is the setup for you! As
for me, I'll stick to the "conservative" 400 HP setup.

Donn Vickrey....

[longlivetheZ]

Umm...what exactly is your question? Sure...running a staged nitrous system is a wonderful 'partner in crime' for turbos. Virtually elimantes turbo lag and has a bonus intercooling effect.

Sure...getting a car to go faster after you reach a certain point is tough sometimes. Getting my Z31T to get to 60 in the 5s is as simple as adding an intake, exhaust and boost controller. It's easy because the hurdles are easy to overcome...only real hurdle is that the Nissan engineers decided to have the stock boost set at a pussified 4psi...why...I really don't know. What happens after that? Then the hurdles grow. To get past that, you have to get a new turbo, get an I/C, rework the ECU/fuel system, etc. Still not that hard, but it's harder than going from ~7.5 to 60 down to ~5.5 to 60.

If you wanna make the biggest diff on your 1/4 times, shed as much weight as possible. And remember...1 lb of unsprung weight equates to approx 4 lbs of sprung weight...makes you think twice about getting those 19" rims, doesn't it?

[Broke_as_****]

You want more acceleration, aka more band power?

HERES YOUR FRIGGIN BAND POWER!

http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg...&msg_id=879836

Between a high flowin exhaust (of which these manifolds should be a part of) setup, a light flywheel (you would be amazed at the difference) and some ball bearing turbos, you'll be making all the power you'll ever need. If you got a pair of huge turbos, 700BBs or 16Gs or what have you, then yeah you might need nitrous to get the turbos rolling but thats the next step up the ladder power wise, like a 700rwhp step. A set of nearly stock sized 530BBs or GT2530s won't really have a problem there.

Inconel manifolds-->530BBs-->Split down pipes-->Jointed testpipes-->Borla catback = just about the quickest way to vent gas short of dumping it straight under the car, and then you would have 0 back pressure, which is not a good situation.

Between that and a lightened flywheel, you'll spin those ball bearing babies to 15+psi in a second or two. Look at the first chart (ported stock manifolds vs the inconels), you're picking up 50-60 lbs of torque through the entire power band as well as a healthy 30-40 horsepower through the band. And later, when then tuned the car for the new pieces, they picked up what little top end they lost (the car was tuned for the ported manifolds for the first chart) and added some more. Look how much more top end the inconels made. Thats awesome.


Whether all this (about 7.5-10k worth of engine work to get up there, more or less) is worth it is up to you. To me it is, as I am young and this is the time for such stupidity. But thats me. And remember, this is will be a 500+ rwhp car, pretty much destroying anything, a highly modded AWD may get an edge off the line but thats about it. A Z is all about movement anyway, gracefully cutting through corners at big speed rather then the garish jerking that is 1/4 mile run. But they can do that just fine too.

[DeleriousZ]

speaking of those manifolds broke, you got your set yet?

[Broke_as_****]

No, as they are bolt ons, I can do them and the turbos and whatnot right before I put the engine in. I have to have the engine out for X amount of this work, but I also have to have the engine apart for some of this work. Right now I have the heads off and being gone through (seats, guides, oil seals etc). I'm adding some JWT cams and valve springs, thats just about the one piece of work that I didn't have the tools for. The cams, the polished intake plenums, injectors and a few other things and I can put the engine back together. Afterwards or during depending on monentary flow ($$$), I'll order the turbos, down pipes, test pipes and manifolds, once they get here, bolt them all on and get the engine back in the car. And then upgrades like the radiator (easy to get to), flywheel (again, easy) and the brakes can be done in their own time.

But I should order the manifolds soon, I don't want my order to get back logged eight months or something.

[youngvr4]

it says 400hp running low 13's.

i don't buy that, i seen a bpu 300zxtt take out a Z06 from start to finish. no turbo upgrade just the bpu's. i'd think with a decent driver you could def get into the 12's with bpu's

[JCCR]

well the think that got me was that according to donn vickrey, a 400hp car runs a second slower than a 500hp! and the 500hp car had bigger turbos , intercooler upgrade, larger injectors. so basically what donn vickrey is saying that after all your bolt ons, to be a second faster is gonna cost you $5000 to 6000. my question would be how tru would it be that a 500hp car is only a second faster than a 400hp?

[youngvr4]

you mean .1 sec

[JCCR]

yes that what i meant .1 sec

[Broke_as_****]

This is all probably because the 500hp car was built with no mind toward how the parts would affect everything else. A set of standard Sport 600s or something about that size will have considerable lag compared to a small stock turbo that is set up to come on quickly and is aided by a few well placed bolt ons. Like everything else, its not so much what you have, its how you make use of it.

[k3smostwanted]

good point. all i hear around my town is how these ricers are gonna buy these huge turbos and put them on their stock engine. YEAH...OK....your engine is not gonna produce enough exhaust to even get that turbo spinning. useless....

[MikeMan]

If you were worried about spooling time that much, and you had money to burn... and you were very masochistic, you could always go for dual sequential turbos..

mmm quad turbo zed...

-Mike

[Broke_as_****]

go for dual sequential turbos..

Maschistic is right, you would probably have to cut through quite a few things to fit the second set in there, like the frame rails for one. Maybe if you moved the alternator, power steering and AC you could move the smaller set forward and save the frame. Your exhaust manifold and boost pipes would be damn near pencil thin by that point (not to mentition looking like a piece of modern art), negating any advantage the smaller turbos would give in the short run. But as this is just a concept exercise, I don't think anyone will ever have to worry about it.

Especially with the VG being a mid sized V6, its better to find a happy middle ground between quick spooling (smaller turbos) and high boost (bigger turbos). Like the Jim Wolf 530BBs. They are small enough to spool with almost no lag and will still push 25+ psi, maybe even a little more if you set it up right. And if you need more than 25 psi of boost, you are already hell and gone from anything you'll be buying off the shelf.

Anyway, as for the 400, 500 example, before any type of judgement can be made, more has to be known about the cars.

And FYI, Specialty Z has the inconel manifolds in stock. When I called I figured they would be back ordered about ten years but they are $1900 so I guess there is plenty of people out there savin cash right now.