350 or 454?

[Treill6]

I am restoring my dads 66 malibu. He is the original owner of it, bought it in 1966 when he was about my age (17). It had a 283 in it, which is now sitting in a corner. I wont be statisfied with the 283 though. I am thinking about getting a 350 or 454 crate motor. I realize that i need to upgrade the rear and tranny ect. Which motor would be a better choice? I basically want it for the street and race it on the ocasional weekend. I want to know which is the better motor, which would be more fun, faster,potential for more hp, and durable, not which is easier or cheaper to install, OR GETS BETTER GAS MILEAGE. Everybody seems to give me those answers. Both motors have about 430 hp. I would like to do some mods to it eventually, but i dunno if messing with a crate engine that is set up to run efficiently woudl be wise? Would the 350 rev alot faster and higher than the 454? Im thinking that if the motors have the same hp that the 350 would be faster cause of its shorter stroke, it should rev faster, shift faster, go faster??? Im worried that the 454 might be a little dogish in reving like....i dunno how to explain it lol, im not saying that its a slow motor or anything lol.

454- Bore:4.25 Stroke:4.00
350- Bore:4.00 Stroke:3.48
I'm pritty sure those numbers are correct, if i remeber right.

Im also thinking 12 bolt rear, m-22. Any suggestions on that also.

If anyone could help me answer any of my numerous questions it would be apreciated.

[Indetrucks]

Well seeing as the 283 is sitting on the side already I guess trying to talk you into putting it back in the car is out of the question? If you absolutly have to put another engine in the car I would at least stick with a small block. You wont have to do any mods and the car will still handle the same. With a big block addition there are a few things that you will have to change. As far as power I'm a big block guy myself. If gas mileage is even an issue for you then forget about the big block. But either way putting out 400+ HP is going to take some gas.
Cherry out your dads old Malibu and drop the original 283 back in it. He will/would've appreciate it. Too many non original cars out there nowadays and if your Malibu is mostly stock still then the car itself is already very rare and will be worth a lot more in the long run. Plus a rebuilt 283 with a nice mild cam is still fun and much better gas mileage than the other engines you are thinking about.. Oh and no side pipes..

[Treill6]

ok ok no side pipes! lol My dad started to fix the car in like 79ish? and he took the 283 out and was going to rebuild it and all. But he is always very busy and never got around to it. And now im hooked on cars, so i want to get it running more than anything. I dont think i will ever be satisfied with the 195 hp comming from the 283, well not yet anyway. My plan is to get the motor and other stuff, and just keep the 10 bolt, 283 and saginaw in storage, and then when im little tired of not being able to pull out without the tires spinning ill put the 283 back into it. Gas isnt really a problem, i have another car to drive for gas mileage. I already have replacement parts for the trunk, rear inner and outter fender wells, and patch pannels for the front and rear rusty spots. Its not rusted up that bad at all, it has been kept in the garage since 79 when he took it off the road, and never really on salty roads b4 that, after i put these pieces on it it will be rust free except for a couple spots in the floor boards that i will fix later. Im going to polish rust off the frame, tnx again

[TrueBlues]

The 454 will rev slower than the 350 but will make more torque at a lower rpm. If you have the option big-block is the way to go without a doubt. Your 430hp 350 will have to sacrifice that low end torque to make the higher rpm horsepwer. Turning a higher rpm is harder on your engine as a whole.

Why build a 350 that needs 6500 rpm to make the same 430hp that the 454 can make at 5500 rpm?

And it'll cost you more money to make that horsepower in a small block than a big block due to needing better quality internals.

You'll be much happier with the 454 for sure!

[96Civ]

Ignore the post above.

454 for a Drag car.

350 for a Street car.

We have a camero around here that runs on pump gas with 700hp and guess whats under the hood? A 350.

Yes the 454 has more power, stock... but a bigger engine is not always better.

[Indetrucks]

I completely disagree with you. But as far as bigger is better it depends on who your asking. If you are having money problems and cannot afford the cost of BB Parts and the gas it consumes, then by all means get a small block.You cannot substitue anything for cubic inches! The biggest, toughest built Big Block will always be faster and beat the biggest, toughest built small block. (Given that they are ran in relatively the same set up). PERIOD. I agree if you're going all out trailer queen race car then hands down big block but still... You've got a mouse vs. Rat.. The rat takes it. It's just bigger and stronger. When your talking a crazy built small block, you're talking about a ton of money. But to get a big block to run just as fast as that small block it will be cheaper. It all boils down to opinions but speaking from experience. At car shows the big block draws the attention. 350 small blocks are about as common as those Ford 289's (just nothing special about them).. They just don't do it for me.

[TrueBlues]

I'm not sure what 96civ's problem is. I didn't say that a small block couldnt make horsepower. I said that a big block will out power a small block with the same basic setup. And it will, any time, any day, any where, PERIOD!

Some of you may be familiar with the phrase "there's no replacement for displacement". Well, that rings pretty true. If you want to go fast big block is the way to go. Anyone that knows cars will tell you that!

[96Civ]

Moding a 350 is a lot cheaper and thats not just my opinion here... its a fact. I'm simply saying, if you are going to go with a street application then you should go with the 350. If your setting up your car to drag, then go with the 454 because obviously it can get more horsepower at its full moded capacity. But this guy is probably not going for a 1000hp street machine, right? Nor does he have thousands to waste on the 454's more expensive components.

I honestly cannot see why you are so biased against the 350 when you clearly do not give an argument at all.

"If you want to go fast big block is the way to go."

Sorry, thats not the way the cookie crumbles...

[TrueBlues]

What more argument do you need? A 454 will make more horsepower and torque than a 350 will! That is the whole point!
I'm not sure who you think you are talking to but I'm sure I have 10 times the experience with these engines that you do. I worked in a speed shop for years, was on a pit crew for a rail dragster, my family has a restoration shop and I've probably built 50 chevy big and small block engines myself. How about telling us where you expertise comes from?

The man asked a question and I answered it.

By the way nice touch with the loser smiley--shows your age!

[Indetrucks]

Wow, such big words for a young 17 yr old with absolutly no Street time. You are entitled to your own opinion and that's good. I don't understand your hate towards the guys with daily driven big blocks I'm sure that if you wanted to you could drop a BB in your FOUR door chevelle. I am only saying (speaking from experience) with 11 more driving years than you and building race engines for a hot rod shop from 16 to 18yrs old that once you own a small block you tend to ponder what it would be like to have that big block. I have 3 cars all with Big Blocks, All are drivable and not set up for full drag. Only one runs off Race Gas and i'm sure there are faster cars on the street however a well built 350 will still have a struggle against them. We all speak from experience and personal Opinions so please, Try not to take it so personally.

[96Civ]

I am not prejudice against big blocks at all, but all you seem to be missing the point. Yes a big block has more power.. stock. Thanks for stating the obvious.

I don't know about you, but being 17, (I cant really speak for Treill at the moment because I don't know his financial status), I don't have the money to dish out for a big block for my 'Daily Driven Chevelle'...

DUHYEE

350- Cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to MOD.

454- More power.




..And please stop with the whole 'more power is always better' gig, because its not. If this is how older more 'experienced' people act, then I am really disapointed. Sounds like a few people need to go back to legos and playdoh..

[Indetrucks]

Sigh* We are merely giving our opinions... Again.. Please stop taking it so personally 96Civ

[96Civ]

Originally Posted by Indetrucks

Sigh* We are merely giving our opinions... Again.. Please stop taking it so personally 96Civ

Its like you want an argument, but when you get a heated discussion, you get all defensive.. oh well.

Go look at your posts. You give all the credit to the 454 and don't even talk about the 350 except to downgrade it and constantly remind yourself how weak it is. Giving Treill6 good advice would be telling him the good things about each engine. I was merelly making up for what you lacked conserning this discussion.

And Treill6, I hope you do more research before you make your decission. I hope your car turns out great btw.

[TrueBlues]

I refuse to try and argue a point with anyone that uses the phrase DUHYEE.

I'm going outside to insult some more poor small block motors now...

[Indetrucks]

*heavy sigh* I don't know how to respond anymore... nore am I looking for an argument, especially one with a 17yr old boy. I have already gone off the offensive and on the neutral but you are testing my patience. You are right 96Civ. There are pro's and cons to both engines and I'm sure he knows the (obvious) difference between the two. I believe he merely wanted an experienced opinion. Like I said before. I have had both and prefer the big block that is all. BTW.. I don't know if you have been paying attention to the earlier posts but I even recommended he use the original 283 small block and or just stick with a replacment small block. I never even recommended the big block.. So please... just relax.