code 41 1992 park avenue

[eespidie]

Hi this is my first post. I recently acquired a 1992 Buick Park Ave. A beautiful car... that seems to hate me.

my problem is that she shakes as i slow down and stalls when I stop. Usually about 10 minutes or so of driving. it doesnt stall everytime but less when i baby the brake (i think) Its getting worse quickly and I've changed the spark plug wires and that didnt help also the previous owner recently changed the Cam sensor yet I'm getting a code 41.

i know nothing about cars... someone please help before i end up bankrupt. thanks.

[tman]

sounds like a fuel problem, put some drygas in the tank, or a few bottles of rubbing alcohol to a half tank, then bounce the rear shocks to stir it up. Change the fuel filter as well. At the worst, you'll need a new fuel pump and sending unit.

[eespidie]

I just picked up some dry gas and some "complete fuel system cleaner" Im going to give it a shot right now... Ill tell you how it went. thanks a lot

[eespidie]

120 mi. later and my baby is running almost beautifully now. The only problem i have now is when i try to pass, she jumps forward in bursts, I'm assuming it's just residule effects and it'll pass... right? thanks for the help.

[mounddog]

You might want to try and change or have changed for you the crankshaft sensor - since some of what you described sounds similiar to what i was experiencing (slight bucking and then conking out). It may not be related - but i almost remember having that Code41 as well - and nothing i did except changing the crankshaft ever really fixed my car. Actually when i think about it - one thing i changed too was the TPS (throttle position sensor) which is pretty easy to change out - that might be related. Anyhow - just a couple of suggestions if your at your ropes end. Im a little crankshaft sensor crazy at this point - so you might want to disregard what i say
Mike

[eespidie]

I'm not quite at my ropes end. she seems to be coming around for me. but with 156k (or so) i should look into all the parts i can.

[Cntrysthbst]

Need help!

I got a code 41 as well. Replaced camshaft sensor, simple switch-out. I have erased the computer 5 times and everytime I start it up, service engine soon light comes on right away with the same code! Just replaced crankshaft sensor about 8 months ago. Not into putting stuff in gas tank because no issue with fuel. Now I check my chiltons and it has one listing for code 41 - the cam shaft curcuit. I double check the Haynes manual and it has 3 listings for code 41 - #1. cam shaft curuit - #2. cylinder select error (mem-cal or ecm problem) for fuel injected engines, and, #3. no distributor signals ecm, or faulty ignition module (carbureted models). I don't believe #3 applies here.

So with this info, can anyone help point me in the right direction in what to replace next? Thanks!

[wrightz28]

The code does not necessarily mean the sensor itself is bad, as you stated, the circuit, check the wiring out for cracks causing a open in which the circuit is not functioning, as well as the connectors for corrosion.

I would also recommend a good injector cleaning, if you don't want to put any in tank detergents then you can have it serviced directly at the fuel rail.

[Cntrysthbst]

Good point about the "circuit", guess I wasn't thinking well. I will go trace that.

Can you explain the fuel issue and how it is related to the camshaft circuit? I'm lost one that one and would like to learn so I know what to do next time. Thanks.

[wrightz28]

The crankshaft reference signal is used for the ignition timing, and as back up to the cam for injectors.

The camshaft signal is used for optimal injector firing. So if the injectors are clogging up, I could see where there may be a conflict. If the the cam signal prompts the ECM to fire the injector, but fuel is dribbling out and casuing the ECM to keep reevaluating exhaust counts, the ECM may say "hey we're constanlty rich, and the cam signal says to fire again, it must be lying"

[Cntrysthbst]

Ok, that was great info! Not doing to good on thinking straight today! I will play with the injectors, cleaning and so on. And retest the fuel pressure. I can't thank you enough. I'll post back soon.

[Cntrysthbst]

Thanks for all the help so far! Ok would like to know the exact psi I should have at the fuel rail, please. I still have the code 41, after adding additives to fuel. The light just keeps coming on when I start the car for the first time after a memory reset, plus now I got a hesitation when I push the gas pedal. If I slowly push the pedal - no problem, pushing it faster it seems like there is a delay and it just takes off. Still only code 41. This thread is for a code 41 right? I noticed it changed to 14. Thanks.

[wrightz28]

Yeah, 14 is CTS problem.

About 40 psi @ idle is a good average reading reading. Anything lower than 36 psi @ idle would be incutcive of a problem.

[Cntrysthbst]

Ok, reading 48 psi.

I was playing around and noticed that the idle is about 500 rpm, when I give it a little gas it hesitates, just tapping the pedal. It wants to die and goes right up to about 1500 rpm and stays there for about 5 seconds and goes down to about 850 rpm for about 5 more seconds then slowly goes to 500 rpm. It does this every time I push the pedal. That's with the ac on. With the ac off it just goes to about 1200 and back to 850 rpm and slowly to 500 rpm. At 500 rpm the car idles sick, its not overheating but is getting very hot, enough to kick in the high speed fan. Still got code 41, I did find in my scanner book afew more things that could be at fault, six total, I'll list them -

1. Cam sensor failure
2. Cylinder select error
3. Tach input error - no reference pulse during engine run
4. Electronic spark timing (EST) circuit - open or shorted to ground
5. Direct ignition system fault (DIS) - bypass circuit open or shorted to ground during engine run
6. Ignition system fault - loss of 1X - Reference Pulse signal

Hope this is helpful. Replaced cam sensor, tach does read, and the rest I'm lost. What do I do next? Thanks!

[HotZ28]

Rob, it sounds like you are losing your cam sensor signal, either from a broken or missing magnet in the cam gear or either the sensor and associated wiring going to the ICM. Code 41, can also be the crank sensor on these cars!

FYI;
As with the crankshaft sensor, the ignition module sends a reference signal to a Hall-effect switch in the camshaft sensor. A permanent magnet, attached to the camshaft sprocket, passes close to the sensor once each camshaft revolution (the camshaft rotates once for every two crankshaft revolutions). As the magnet passes beside the sensor, the Hall-effect switch is activated by the magnetic field, and its transistor turns on to ground the ignition reference signal line and pulls its voltage low (0-0.1 volts).

The camshaft sensor "sync" pulse is received by the ignition module as piston number 1 (and 4) reaches approximately 25 degrees ATDC on the power stroke. The camshaft signal output is also sent from the ignition module to the ECM.

The 3800 engine will not default to simultaneous (MFI) injection when the camshaft sensor signal is not received at any time, whether in bypass or Electronic Spark Timing (EST) mode.

If the camshaft signal pulse is not present during cranking, ECM/PCM signal logic begins sequencing injectors after two crankshaft revolutions or six pulses from the 3X reference signal. Code 41 is stored on the seventh pulse from the 3X signal and sequential injection begins in a random pattern.

There is a one in six chance that fuel injection will coincide correctly with valve opening. If injection is off, drivability is affected only a small amount (slight hesitation).

Source: GM Powertrain V6 Introduction to Fuel Injection, Diagnosis and Service by Ron Harlow.