Possible WMD in Iraq

[Flatrater]

Senate Intel Report: Saddam's Nuke Scientists Active Until War

While the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded on Friday that Saddam Hussein didn't have much in the way of weapons of mass destruction, its conclusions on Iraq's nuclear weapons program weren't quite the clean bill of health that the media have suggested they were.

For instance, according to the report's "Overall Conclusions" section, "Iraq was procuring dual use equipment that had potential nuclear applications."

What's more, the Committee found that "Iraq had kept its cadre of nuclear weapons personnel trained and in positions that could keep their skills intact for eventual use in a reconstituted nuclear program." To be sure, the Committee managed to come up with alternative explanations for these developments, such as labeling Saddam's nuclear team "former nuclear scientists" who just happened to be working at "former nuclear facilities" while carrying out work unrelated to any weapons program. But nowhere in the Committee's conclusions is there any mention of the 1.8 tons of low-enriched uranium that Saddam managed to accumulate at his "former" nuclear weapons plant at al-Tuwaitha. Just last month the U.S. Energy Department transported that stockpile out of Baghdad to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on it. And neither does the Committee discuss the 500 tons of un-enriched uranium Saddam kept at the same facility - material that certainly could have kept those "former" nuclear scientists busy, especially if they were able to convert some of that "dual use equipment." Of course, critics of the war say fears about Saddam's uranium stockpile were overblown, that the massive cache of nuke fuel was kept under seal and inspected annually by the International Atomic Energy Agency - even after U.N. weapons inspectors were kicked out in 1998. That would be the same IAEA that did such a bang-up job of keeping tabs on North Korea's nuclear program for the last 10 years - right up until 2002, when Pyongyang announced, "Surprise, we have eight nuclear bombs."

[WissNX01]

I will concede its more likely Saddam sent his scientists and technology to places like N Korea. Let someone else build a bomb or missile, and the US will refocus away from Iraq.

"Surprise we have 8 bombs" is right. Where was the CIA on this? Way back when, the CIA knew days in advance when the first Russian H-bomb was going to be tested. Now the CIA wouldnt know until after one obliterated a city.

[taranaki]

For instance, according to the report's "Overall Conclusions" section, "Iraq was procuring dual use equipment that had potential nuclear applications."

Teaspoons can be used in nuclear powerplant canteens.Fits that statement perfectly.So what?

[werwolf-23]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Senate Intel Report: Saddam's Nuke Scientists Active Until War

[size=4][size=4][size=4][size=4][size=1]While the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded on Friday that Saddam Hussein didn't have much in the way of weapons of mass destruction, its conclusions on Iraq's nuclear weapons program weren't quite the clean bill of health that the media have suggested they were.

For instance, according to the report's "Overall Conclusions" section, "Iraq was procuring dual use equipment that had potential nuclear applications."

... So, because Iraq had equipment that, in addition to its normal use, could be used for a nuclear program, this means... um... what?

I mean, I've got a 30-06 that I hunt with. I could use that to kill someone if I wanted to -- does this make me a murderer, or someone planning murder?

What's more, the Committee found that "Iraq had kept its cadre of nuclear weapons personnel trained and in positions that could keep their skills intact for eventual use in a reconstituted nuclear program." To be sure, the Committee managed to come up with alternative explanations for these developments, such as labeling Saddam's nuclear team "former nuclear scientists" who just happened to be working at "former nuclear facilities" while carrying out work unrelated to any weapons program. But nowhere in the Committee's conclusions is there any mention of the 1.8 tons of low-enriched uranium that Saddam managed to accumulate at his "former" nuclear weapons plant at al-Tuwaitha. Just last month the U.S. Energy Department transported that stockpile out of Baghdad to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on it. And neither does the Committee discuss the 500 tons of un-enriched uranium Saddam kept at the same facility - material that certainly could have kept those "former" nuclear scientists busy, especially if they were able to convert some of that "dual use equipment."

The 'facility' is a nuclear power plant. They need uranium to run?

Of course, critics of the war say fears about Saddam's uranium stockpile were overblown, that the massive cache of nuke fuel was kept under seal and inspected annually by the International Atomic Energy Agency - even after U.N. weapons inspectors were kicked out in 1998. That would be the same IAEA that did such a bang-up job of keeping tabs on North Korea's nuclear program for the last 10 years - right up until 2002, when Pyongyang announced, "Surprise, we have eight nuclear bombs."

Erm, they were regulary inspected. And further, the inspectors weren't kicked out, they were PULLED out so we could start Desert Fox bombing Iraq (right on, say I: he wasn't complying, but let's stop with this myth that he kicked them out)

[Pick]

Originally Posted by werwolf-23

I mean, I've got a 30-06 that I hunt with. I could use that to kill someone if I wanted to -- does this make me a murderer, or someone planning murder?

Oh, c'mon, don't be that naive. Saddam had used WMD's on his OWN PEOPLE before. You can't sit here and say that he would even hesitate to use them on Americans or American allies for a second.

You can use a hunting rifle for many different things. Target shooting, skeet shooting, actually hunting, self-protection, shooting varment in your house. But what the fuck could you possibly want to do with a WMD besides use it to harm somebody else??!!! You don't hang it up on the wall and admire it! He had no reason for having WMD's and if indeed he did have them, the world is a much better place without them and him , seeing as his track record playing with WMD's is a fatal one.

[twospirits]

Originally Posted by Pick

Oh, c'mon, don't be that naive. Saddam had used WMD's on his OWN PEOPLE before. You can't sit here and say that he would even hesitate to use them on Americans or American allies for a second..

Use on Americans? Do you mean sending them over here (which was the suggestion before we got into the war), comeon, how was he suppose to deliever them to us. The missles he had could not go that far away.

Originally Posted by Pick

But what the fuck could you possibly want to do with a WMD besides use it to harm somebody else??!!! You don't hang it up on the wall and admire it! He had no reason for having WMD's and if indeed he did have them, the world is a much better place without them and him , seeing as his track record playing with WMD's is a fatal one.

Then what can be said of the US, Russia, China, Great Britain, India, Isreal, etc etc. Don't they all hold wepaons of mass destruction aka Atomic bombs or is this just a double standard.

[Pick]

We haven't used them on our own people or shown aggression in using them in the past twenty years.

[driftu]

Originally Posted by Pick

We haven't used them on our own people or shown aggression in using them in the past twenty years.

but America has used them. on their own soil. and people did get sick cause of it.

Originally Posted by pick

Oh, c'mon, don't be that naive. Saddam had used WMD's on his OWN PEOPLE before. You can't sit here and say that he would even hesitate to use them on Americans or American allies for a second.

and so america and the other powers get to hold WMD's but other countries can't. seems like a load of bs to me. if the states want to "deactivate" worlds WMD, maybe they should start with themselfs and worry about others later.

Originally Posted by pick

You can use a hunting rifle for many different things. Target shooting, skeet shooting, actually hunting, self-protection, shooting varment in your house. But what the fuck could you possibly want to do with a WMD besides use it to harm somebody else??!!! You don't hang it up on the wall and admire it! He had no reason for having WMD's and if indeed he did have them, the world is a much better place without them and him , seeing as his track record playing with WMD's is a fatal one.

just to recap, he had the means to make WMDs. so do many places.
America's track record with WMD aint' so hot either.

[Pick]

When, besides to end a WORLD WAR, have we used WMD's? And when have we used them on our own people?

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Pick

When, besides to end a WORLD WAR, have we used WMD's? And when have we used them on our own people?

Iraq in 1991, and again in 2003.DU shells are higghly radioactive,and US and allied infantry operating in contaminated areas have gotten sick from it.Not to mention the massive jump in birth deformities in Iraq since the Gulf war.
Could also argue that the carpet bombing of Vietnam with Agent Orange also harmed US servicemen and their allies,or that the abuse of napalm in Vietnam would be classified as a WMD if the enemy had been the ones using it.

[twospirits]

I can only find this...
Human Nuclear Expiriments

Good source material on the countries with weapons of mass destructions and the types they have. Nuclear Forces WMD around the world.

Off but not quite off topic...
In the Operation Teapot link on page 11 they talk about the beverages they exposed to the tests...
"Some flavor change was found in the beverages, more in beer than in soft drinks. However the alterations may well be considered as equivalent in most respects to "aging" and were not found to detract from the potential usage of these beverages for emergency supplies"

Well at least its good to know that the beer was good to drink even in an attack. Talk about aging a beer. Molsen anyone.

[FireBball972]

Originally Posted by twospirits

Use on Americans? Do you mean sending them over here (which was the suggestion before we got into the war), comeon, how was he suppose to deliever them to us. The missles he had could not go that far away.

we were never really worried about his missles, we were just worried about his capacity to produce the substances. who says he wouldn't be able to have an operative smuggle a small vial or case of the stuff into the U.S.? It's scary how easily someone could do that. And yes, even that small of an amount can wreak horrible damage if employed correctly. Sarin, which they knew he had, or had the capability of producing, is extremely lethal. It is lethal in , I don't know what it is, some 1/100th of a gram or something. It's terrible stuff. Someone with a small vial could do real damage with the right delivery.

[twospirits]

Which leads one to wonder if anyone is actually safe if something that small in quantity is so lethal and can be probably transported.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by werwolf-23

... So, because Iraq had equipment that, in addition to its normal use, could be used for a nuclear program, this means... um... what?

I guess you can't read or something because you quoted me "potential nuclear applications"

Originally Posted by werwolf-23

... Erm, they were regulary inspected. And further, the inspectors weren't kicked out, they were PULLED out so we could start Desert Fox bombing Iraq (right on, say I: he wasn't complying, but let's stop with this myth that he kicked them out)

That could be true if the invasion started in 1998, the year the inspectors were kicked out. If I stated 2003 or 2002 then you had a chance but 1998 was before Bush was in office! Or are you implying Clinton started this?

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Iraq in 1991, and again in 2003.DU shells are higghly radioactive,and US and allied infantry operating in contaminated areas have gotten sick from it.Not to mention the massive jump in birth deformities in Iraq since the Gulf war.

In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium [DU] is ideal for use in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets. DU provides a substantial performance advantage, well above other competing materials. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a significantly greater distance. Also, DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for many years in both applications. Depleted uranium results from the enriching of natural uranium for use in nuclear reactors. Natural uranium is a slightly radioactive metal that is present in most rocks and soils as well as in many rivers and sea water. Natural uranium consists primarily of a mixture of two isotopes (forms) of uranium, Uranium-235 (U235) and Uranium-238 (U238), in the proportion of about 0.7 and 99.3 percent, respectively. Nuclear reactors require U235 to produce energy, therefore, the natural uranium has to be enriched to obtain the isotope U235 by removing a large part of the U238. Uranium-238 becomes DU, which is 0.7 times as radioactive as natural uranium. Since DU has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, there is very little decay of those DU materials.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/du.htm