turbo my B18, or LSvtec?

[viridion]

well i swapped the b18 into my car a while ago and i've stumbled on a little extra money.. so i want some opinions

i figure that it will cost me about as much to lsvtec as it will to turbo the LS motor so what do you all think would be more cost effective?
eventually i wish to have both but what should i start with?

anyone run LS turbo or LSvtec and have good/bad things to say about either?


if i LSvtec now i will leave the rods stock and put new rods when i turbo it.

if i turbo it now i will leave stock rods and run 8lbs or so until i lsvtec when i will put new rods in, then run 15-18lbs.


keep in mind i'm on a budget and will probably have to live with this decision for about six months before i can have both.. also this car is a daily driver hehe, either thing i choose can be done in a weekend.. i'm not new at this and hondas certainly aren't complicated i've done a couple of sohcvtec turbo and a d16a6 turbo but this lsvtec thing sounds a little more challenging

[QuikShifter]

I've heard LS-Turbo can be safer than LS-Vtec provided you have the right managment. LS-Vtec has to be built right or else you'll have a quick smokey car that may stall at the next light. Either way, remember that LS bottom end is not that strong and revs should be kept below 8500 if you plan on using it as a daily driver.

[SiZ]

If you're really on a buget I'd say LSVTEC is considerably cheaper than turbo....

[civic_boy91]

i would have said just put a b18c1 in there... but i see you have the b18a/b in. boost could be faster but ls/vtec is going to cost less like Siz said... i would go boost just not too much and your ok.

[Cjz89civic]

You guys say boost is expensive? Sure I paid a few for mine but it has a propose it HAD TO BE LEGAL. If I did not care I could boost any car for about $400-500 including a make shift fuel management system. So boosting is really not that bad as far as cost.

As to the answer of this question I would boost the LS motor but also build it to run your 15-18psi now and worry about your vtec later. IMO

[Hybrid1990crx]

Ok this is some info I got from some kid at a meet a week or so ok, so don't flame me if I sound like an idiot.

I was talking to a kid who had a boosted mini-me in his rex, and he was saying that the vtec was acutally giving his turbo less potential or something, because it wasn't letting it spool to its full ability. And I've seen people before with vtec killer cams to get rid of vtec on their b series motors.

But in my personal opion, I would boost the LS right now and worry about your ls/vtec later. I'm not really a big fan of ls/vtec anyone, I've heard of/seen a lot of spun bearings and thrown rods if you don't build it right.

[91civicDXdude]

you could turbo the LS for cheaper than you could build an LSVTEC for, and make a shitload more power.

VTEC is good for boost. I was running the biggest SOHC VTEC cam made with my turbo and it was awesome.

[civic_boy91]

Originally Posted by 91civicDXdude

you could turbo the LS for cheaper than you could build an LSVTEC for, and make a shitload more power.

VTEC is good for boost. I was running the biggest SOHC VTEC cam made with my turbo and it was awesome.

"was"? what happend? are you still running it?

[viridion]

well as i said i could do them both for about the same cost, as there is no emissions here in MN where i live.. b16 or b17 head alone is about 400$ and then i need a head gasket and vtec controller so i'm probably looking at around 700 for lsvtec.

turboing parts and fmu will probably run me around 700 and if i buy new rods there's 300$ on top of that so turbo will be more expensive if i build the engine too.. but i know it will produce mad powah yo.

i think i'm gonna turbo it cause i want a bov. hehe also i've been hearing some horror stories about lsvtec and such, as well as some great success stories so maybe i'll wait on that one a bit

thx for the opinions guys!

[TheSilentChamber]

I bet theres more horror stories about turbos than about vtec

[Hybrid1990crx]

Originally Posted by viridion

well as i said i could do them both for about the same cost, as there is no emissions here in MN where i live.. b16 or b17 head alone is about 400$ and then i need a head gasket and vtec controller so i'm probably looking at around 700 for lsvtec.

There is more to building LS/vtec than what you said, atleast to do it the right way. Don't expect to be reving to 8 grand, it just wont handle it.

[SiZ]

Originally Posted by Cjz89civic

You guys say boost is expensive? Sure I paid a few for mine but it has a propose it HAD TO BE LEGAL. If I did not care I could boost any car for about $400-500 including a make shift fuel management system.

Ya ya, thats all fine an dandy but when it comes down to it; someone with $2000 or so swap probably cares about their motor. Tell me how you're going to boost a car safley and efficently for near the same amount of money it would cost to build an LS block with new bearings and rings, and a few other minor things to make it like a new motor!?

I bet theres more horror stories about turbos than about vtec

Right, and it comes from corner cutting. Some people have went a little too far with the homemade turbos, I've seen some fucking scary setups and I've heard plenty of boo-hoo stories about how thing went wrong where they "saved" money with their turbo setups.

A decent setup isn't exactly dirt cheap, however not as much $ as we previously would have thought. Still though, you don't want to cheap out on an old turbo, you don't want shitty rubber charge pipes, you don't want some used wastegate off a 13 year old car, you don't want a FPR and the seat of your pants as a fuel managment system either.


Hybrid - LSVTECs can take 8k no problem, but you've gotta do it right. ARP head and rod bolts are a MUST.

[joebowlr21]

First, i think you should ba asking people who have done this before.Dont ask so publicly cuz then everyone an there mothers wiil respond.

Ask people who have boosted an ls and people who have boosted an ls/vtec.That is the only full proof way to get the answers you nned.Or else everyone is gonna say yea i hear this and i hear that.

I can tell you from my experiance on an ls/vtec turbo.It's in a 4th gen 4-door civic lx.I have helped build this car since my buddy Rudy bought the damn car for 5 hundred.We started with just an ls block then swapped a 1st gen b16 head on.Eventually he came up with the money so we began getting parts for the turbo kit build.We went with a T3/4 hybrid setup.Set at 10psi it's a dialy driver.Now, amazing potential is found with a boosted ls/vtec.

But, many problems do arise.Mainly with bearings.He would go through bearings every 2 months.This was mainly because we couldn't get enough oil to them.First we swapped out the stock pump with a type R.But stil had problems.Even with a walbro oil pump, we still were not getting sufficient amounts of oil pressure.With alot of headaches and money, we finally figured out a solution.We went back to the type R integ oil pump and just retuned the car so it wouldn't run as fast to deplete the oil pressure.It now runs 12's on street tires all day long.

[91civicDXdude]

turbo LS dominates an all motor LS VTEC any way you look at it.

A decent setup isn't exactly dirt cheap, however not as much $ as we previously would have thought. Still though, you don't want to cheap out on an old turbo, you don't want shitty rubber charge pipes, you don't want some used wastegate off a 13 year old car, you don't want a FPR and the seat of your pants as a fuel managment system either.

I have a brand new aftermarket BOV, all metal charge pipes, 450cc injectors, and a chipped ECU. If it wasnt for me spending a little extra money on things i didnt need (werent necessary but still help), such as my cam, cam gear, & Apexi VAFC, i would have WELL under $1000 into my entire turbo setup. on a SOHC @ 10psi, it is VERY likely i am putting out 180-200WHP.

I have seen *ALOT* of "all motor" LS VTEC engines (or b18c/b16a for that matter) with type r cams (or similar), high compression pistons, and bolt ons making less than 160WHP.

compare cost for cost, you cant beat turbo. There are people running 15PSI on 100% BONE STOCK LS bottom ends, making close to 250WHP. Its all in the tuning and power output. without detonation, consisting of proper fuel and timing management, turbo is VERY reliable.

[SiZ]

Originally Posted by 91civicDXdude

I have a brand new aftermarket BOV, all metal charge pipes, 450cc injectors, and a chipped ECU. If it wasnt for me spending a little extra money on things i didnt need (werent necessary but still help), such as my cam, cam gear, & Apexi VAFC, i would have WELL under $1000 into my entire turbo setup. on a SOHC @ 10psi, it is VERY likely i am putting out 180-200WHP.

Can you write a break-down of what all you bought and what it cost? This interests me. When I was going for a turbo setup a lot of the parts were a lot of money.. I know that you americans buy brand new parts for about half the price of what they are here in Canada, but I want to know exactly. Are you using a used turbo? Are you using the HF manifold for your turbo? With B series you have to buy an aftermarket one, or have a custom one made wich is quite a bit more money than an HF manifold and adapter plate.

I have seen *ALOT* of "all motor" LS VTEC engines (or b18c/b16a for that matter) with type r cams (or similar), high compression pistons, and bolt ons making less than 160WHP.

Somethings not right there, a B16A with boltons and type-R cams should make 160whp. Thats not right. Type-R cams and PR3 pistons in an LS block with bolt ons should be making 170+hp and around 130tq. to the wheels.

compare cost for cost, you cant beat turbo. There are people running 15PSI on 100% BONE STOCK LS bottom ends, making close to 250WHP. Its all in the tuning and power output. without detonation, consisting of proper fuel and timing management, turbo is VERY reliable.

I agree 100%. What I was saying with my reply is it really depends how much money you have to spend. If you have the cash for turbo, I wouldn't be thinking about LSVTEC, but if you have the cash for a nice LSVTEC build and are thinking about rigging up some ghetto turbo setup its probably best that you stick with all motor. You know what I'm saying?
Fuel managment is key to reliability with turbos..