The Kidnapping\murders In The Mideast

[Flatrater]

A friend of mine wrote this and I agree with his thoughts and logic.


This situation has made me sick. Not terrorized and wanting us to cut & run but mad as h*ll!!! I realize that the purpose of terrorism is to strike at the heart of the population, to make common citizens fearful rather than strike at a nation's government or military. How do you combat an enemy that will sacrifice itself, it's children and it's humanity without becoming as brutal as the enemy itself? The media has filled the airwaves with photos and videos of the abuses of the Iraqi detainees and yet to condemn our military for the action of a few and to draw comparisons to the murder of civilians is ludicrous.
I know that the videos of the be-headings are out there and many say that adults should watch to try to understand the brutality of the enemy but I can't bring myself to do it. I can hate the murderers just fine without seeing the poor victim suffer his last moments at the hands of these animals. This is not a quick death, this is not death with dignity or purpose, this is a murder of a non-combatant by cowards who can only prey on civilized people. I have heard people say that we need to get our people and troops out of the Mideast but I can't help to remind them that we weren't there when the animals killed 3000 innocents on September 11, 2001. We were not over there when Daniel Pearl was beheaded. These murdering cowards will not stop with our withdrawal but rather be encouraged, knowing that we can be intimidated. Nick Berg, Paul Johnson and now this South Korean are more evidence that we are dealing with a group of people who have no respect for life and no shred of civilized humanity. How do we defeat a foe without sinking to their level? One thing is sure, these atrocities will continue until the mainstream Muslim world stands up and condemns these actions and people. Saudi Arabia have been dealing with these extremist with a 'wink & nod' for years and it is now time that we hold the House of Saud's feet to the fire and make them understand that if they are not condemning it, they are supporting it. Last week, a Saudi official told the western press that they condemn these actions and then told the Arab press that the Al Queda was supported by "Zionists". This is the type of anti-Semitic rhetoric that perpetuates this brutality. What kind of religion encourages it's followers to commit these kinds of acts in the name of their god. Apparently, as a Christian, I cannot fathom the thought process that would cause one religion to exterminate another religion in the name of their 'loving god'. I can also forsee a similar sentiment growing in this country. There are those who believe that all Muslims are terrorists, which they aren't but if they can't stand up with us and fight those who have hi-jacked their religion, they shouldn't be surprised when public opinion turns against them all.
The news quoted an Saudi citizen last week when the search for Paul Johnson was underway. This man actually said "How can we inform on our brothers when we see all these pictures coming from Abu Ghraib and Rafah?". To equate these events is insulting. I'm sure Nick Berg and Paul Johnson would have, if given the choice, gladly walked around naked with panties on their head rather than suffer their fate.
Is it time that we turn loose our intelligence agencies and special forces with a freer hand to infiltrate and if necessary assassinate members of radical groups? We have bound their hands in so many areas that we are in the dark in regards to so many threats that face us. One thing I do know is that while Israel still suffers attacks on it's population, their response is always swift and severe, the way it should be. Attack us and be assured that there will be reprisals. Unfortunately, too often the reprisals are criticized by the UN and other groups while the provoking attack is ignored.
God help me but if this goes on much longer, I'm afraid I'll be with the group calling for nuking all of Iraq and Syria and Iran and let God worry about sorting them out.

[Raz_Kaz]

Can we say asshole?
He goes on saying that he doesnt think all Muslims are terrorists then at the end talks about nuking Muslim countries if this sort of thing continues...(maybe we got ourself the next Bush)
If you took the time to go and read the Qua'ran, you will be shocked and amzaed ( I guaran-damn-tee you that you will be) of what you will find out. There are extremists in every ethnic/sexual/age group whatever.
You expect the Muslim countries to fight? With what, sticks and stones? Only these terrorists have the weapons to kill, the rest of the army (if that country is lucky enough to have one) They are frantically trying to fund the hospitals where they are swarmed with innocent civilians who just happened to have been in the cross fire of terrorists and suspected terrorists alike.
Yes we do have to do something about this, and yes it is becoming irritable to watch or hear about these beheading videos, but blaming a religion will not get you ANYWHERE!!!!

[twospirits]

"I have heard people say that we need to get our people and troops out of the Mideast but I can't help to remind them that we weren't there when the animals killed 3000 innocents on September 11, 2001."
maybe its me, but the bastards that hit my NYC and Washington on 9-11 were Al-Qaida that were stationed in Afganistan, not IRAQ. We should be still concentrating on getting them there than getting rid of Saddam and this so called liberating of IRAQ. We got Saddam on false reasons and the mastermind of the attacks (Osama) is stillout there planning his next set of attacks. Hmmm yeah thats a great plan.

"What kind of religion encourages it's followers to commit these kinds of acts in the name of their god."
hmmmm, I guess most religions that have been involved in wars in this past few centuries. Can anyone say the crusades.

"Is it time that we turn loose our intelligence agencies and special forces with a freer hand to infiltrate and if necessary assassinate members of radical groups?"
hmmm, it looks like the mantra of the terrorist view as well.

"I'm afraid I'll be with the group calling for nuking all of Iraq and Syria and Iran and let God worry about sorting them out."
hmmm yeah, go for it, I am sure that will go well with the worlds biggest religious group that will look at it as an attack on muslims. It would get them so much more reason to hate us.

I say we count our losses , get the rest of the boys out and let them deal with their own government and concentrate on getting Osama.

[Flatrater]

Can we say asshole?
He goes on saying that he doesnt think all Muslims are terrorists then at the end talks about nuking Muslim countries if this sort of thing continues...(maybe we got ourself the next Bush)

Why would he be an asshole? He didn't say that he believes that all muslim countries should be nuked, just said he would start thinking that way and he doesn't want to do that. That is why he wrote "God help me".

maybe its me, but the bastards that hit my NYC and Washington on 9-11 were Al-Qaida that were stationed in Afganistan, not IRAQ. We should be still concentrating on getting them there than getting rid of Saddam and this so called liberating of IRAQ. We got Saddam on false reasons and the mastermind of the attacks (Osama) is stillout there planning his next set of attacks. Hmmm yeah thats a great plan.

Never did he say that Iraq was behind the 9-11 attacks. He stated that we did not occupy Iraq or the Afghans till after 9-11. We did not occupy when Daniel Pearl was murdered , that these deaths were not caused by us invading Iraq, that the deaths would of happened no matter what,that is all he was implying.

hmmmm, I guess most religions that have been involved in wars in this past few centuries. Can anyone say the crusades.

I guess we don't learn from past mistakes in history!

I say we count our losses , get the rest of the boys out and let them deal with their own government and concentrate on getting Osama.

Thats the worst thing I have ever heard. lets leave Iraq and watch it impode, lets let the innocent muslim citizens die. Mistake or not we can't leave till the new government can take over and isure the innocent people are allowed to live.

[2strokebloke]

Long winded, and poorly concluded.
He speaks of Muslims not condemning these monster's actions, and to a point I agree with this - but I ask you, when was the last time you told anybody that you think what the LRA is doing is horrible. If you haven't heard of the LRA(Lord's Resistance Army), it is a "christian" group that has about as much to with christianity as Al-Qaida has to do with Islam, and as much to do with violence and terrorism as Al-Quaida.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Thats the worst thing I have ever heard. lets leave Iraq and watch it impode, lets let the innocent muslim citizens die. Mistake or not we can't leave till the new government can take over and isure the innocent people are allowed to live.

Well, it seems you have brought the Bush Administration propeganda about the take over of Iraq hook, line and sinker.
The US does not give a rat's ass about saving innocent people. The US actively supported Iraq in the '80's during it's attack and 8 year long war on Iran.
That war cost millions of lives on both sides.

Make no mistake, the US wants to establish a major US friendly, oil rich presence in the middle East, especially now, when Saudi Arabia appears to be waffling. In the long run, it's expected to moderate the opinions and actions of the Saudis, Syrians, Iranians and the entire region.

Now before you flame me, this is a logical course of action for the US. If it works (and thats a big IF) , it will result in a more stable, prosporous and democratic middle east. However, it requires the brutal invasion and overthrow of another soverign nation, an action which is inexcusable and completely contrary to the propeganda line coming from the White House.
Meanwhile the rest of the world wonders 'who's next'? Canada? Mexico? Venezuela?

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Thats the worst thing I have ever heard. lets leave Iraq and watch it impode, lets let the innocent muslim citizens die. Mistake or not we can't leave till the new government can take over and isure the innocent people are allowed to live.

You're funny. You're sitting here touting your buddy's letter, that talks about annihilating whole countries, "God help him" or not, and in the same breath, you talk about "innocent muslim citizens". Make up your mind.

Also, you might want to take a look at the numbers. Bushy boy's little foray into Iraq has killed more "innocent muslim citizens", than it has "terrorists".

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by twospirits

"I have heard people say that we need to get our people and troops out of the Mideast but I can't help to remind them that we weren't there when the animals killed 3000 innocents on September 11, 2001."
maybe its me, but the bastards that hit my NYC and Washington on 9-11 were Al-Qaida that were stationed in Afganistan, not IRAQ. We should be still concentrating on getting them there than getting rid of Saddam and this so called liberating of IRAQ. We got Saddam on false reasons and the mastermind of the attacks (Osama) is stillout there planning his next set of attacks. Hmmm yeah thats a great plan.

It is a known FACT tha Al-Qaida is located in MANY contries besides Afghanistan. They are in the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Japan, Spain, and have been in many other places including Venice. Florida.......and YOU, in YOUR infinate wisdom don't think they are in Iraq?? Pulease!

Originally Posted by twospirits

"Is it time that we turn loose our intelligence agencies and special forces with a freer hand to infiltrate and if necessary assassinate members of radical groups?"
hmmm, it looks like the mantra of the terrorist view as well.

No. It is the mantra of national defense....defense of civilization!

Originally Posted by twospirits

I say we count our losses , get the rest of the boys out and let them deal with their own government and concentrate on getting Osama.

I say you must be on drugs to think it is in the world's best interest to cut and run. You cave in to terror....you leave the door open for more terror than you ever dreamed of! That is what happened on 9/11. The terrorists were encouraged by the lack of action following previous terror attacks.

[twospirits]

It is a known FACT tha Al-Qaida is located in MANY contries besides Afghanistan. They are in the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Japan, Spain, and have been in many other places including Venice. Florida.......and YOU, in YOUR infinate wisdom don't think they are in Iraq?? Pulease!

Whats up with the "YOU, in YOUR infinite wisdom comment?" Are we not in a free society to express our views, its only my opinion, besides I never said they are not in Iraq. You are correct in your statement that they are everywhere. But the fact remains, it was not Saddam that masterminded the attacks and last I heard Osama was not in Iraq.

No. It is the mantra of national defense....defense of civilization!

Well to me it would just make us the same on their same level if we start the assassinations. Now I may be wrong in my views but we start to give the intelligence agencies (thats an oxymoron if I ever heard one) more power and they will start to push for more laws much more dangerous to our freedoms which would make the Patriot Act look tame. Can anyone say Big Brother.

I say you must be on drugs to think it is in the world's best interest to cut and run. You cave in to terror....you leave the door open for more terror than you ever dreamed of! That is what happened on 9/11. The terrorists were encouraged by the lack of action following previous terror attacks.

Who said anything about caving in to terror. There is no reason to be in Iraq, every reason Bush and company have put out are not true. Now its true we are in or at least of the point of no return, no matter how much I would love to just get up and go you can't for multiple reasons, but it has been done in the past, unfortunently after so much bloodshed was done first. As for 9/11, I live and witness the horror that day here in NY. I am all for making the people who did this or masterminded this attack pay dearly. But not by going in to take out a dictator and leaving his country in ruins when he had nothing to do with it and still have Osama alive and coming up with more schemes to attack us. To me it doesn't make sense.

Disclaimer:
The views expressed are those soley of the poster, it is not the view of anyone one else.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

You're funny. You're sitting here touting your buddy's letter, that talks about annihilating whole countries, "God help him" or not, and in the same breath, you talk about "innocent muslim citizens". Make up your mind.

Also, you might want to take a look at the numbers. Bushy boy's little foray into Iraq has killed more "innocent muslim citizens", than it has "terrorists".

Just call me John Kerry jr.

[lazysmurff]

im disturbed that he wants us to react like israel. i mean really. have their actions ceased the terrorism in their country, or caused it to explode?

did their hevay handed approach to terror cease the senseless violence? or are they still victims of bus bombings?

israels "reactions" have done a number of things:
been condemed by the rest of the world (excepting the US)

killedthousands of innocent civilians. more than the terrorist attacks against them.

and cause violence in the region on BOTH sides to increase astronomically.

this is not the route America should take. period.

[twospirits]

Yep

[driftu]

i find this all very ironic.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

this is not the route America should take. period.

Too late.

[Flatrater]

[quote=lazysmurff]im disturbed that he wants us to react like israel. i mean really. have their actions ceased the terrorism in their country, or caused it to explode?
QUOTE]

I don't think Isreal has done everything that they wanted to do. They have stopped short of doing all that they can do.

As for Iraq who is "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi" who resides near Baghdad? Could he be Osama's second in charge? How did he end up in Iraq? Was he in Iraq before the US invaded Iraq?