all motor, turbo

[shaun1982]

hey guys i need help.

i got a 94 integra ls. but my question can be refered to any car. not only hondas.

can some one tellll me the advantages and disadvantages of Na and turbo. i am planing to do an all motor honda. i always loved all motor hondas. but can sume one tell how each compare to for an example a honda. so imagine a integra 220 hp all motor, against 220hp turbo.

reliability. acceleration. uphill. maintenance. any thing. and what do u guys prefer and y. thanks. i know this is alot but please any one.

[CivicSpoon]

All motor you'll have the power off the line and won't have to wait till the RPM that the turbo will spool up. Turbo you can upgrade easier and get more hp but upgrading turbos etc. Most people say all motor ends up being more expensive, i don't know that for sure though. But with the LS motor you have now you already have lower compression so it might be a little easier, and cheaper, for you to go with turbo to get 220 hp out of it as is. You'd have to do a lot more motor work to the LS to get to 220 with all motor setup. Reliability depends on how well the setup is put together, so either one could end up being more reliable in the long run. You might be better off swapping in a GSR or ITR engine if you want all motor. Personally me I'm planning on saving up $ for as long as i have to to get an ITR for all motor setup, because 1) all my friends have turbos and most of them have blown their engines or have major problems with their setups, 2) I want to try something different than what they have, and 3) I'd rather spend $5000 on just a motor swap than $2500 for the motor and then another $3500-4000 for a turbo and accessories. But that's jsut my opinion.

[rubix777]

I think the all motor setup would be better(more expensive though), and would require much less maintenance than a turbo set up.

With all motor you won't have to wait for the turbo timer to turn off your car and have to get remote start to warm up your car before you can actually drive it.

With turbo you'll have to do a lot of upgrades and fine tune everything so it works perfectly. You have to use synthetic motor oil and you always have to get the best gasoline for it. Not to mention all motor will yield better mileage.

Turbo sounds cool though. Everyone can afford those fake whistles, but nothing sounds like the real thing.

[KaMaKaZiPyRo]

but couldnt someone who went all motors juss one day decide to add a turbo? or would they have to take sumthin out.

[CivicSpoon]

depends on what they did to the motor, but they'd have to at the very least lower the compression a lot seeing as how most (prob all) all motor applications use high compression pistons. It'd be a waste of $ to have a machine shop or whatever do the job twice.

[civickiller]

explain to me how all motor is more expensive ?

most all motors go itb and high compression pistons, some even bore out there motors to like 86mm on a b series. so if you just wanted to convert to turbo it would all depend on what was done to the all motor motor

i think a fast all motor setup wouldnt be as streetable as a turbo engine

[rubix777]

how about I explain to you why turbos are cheaper.

turbo cars are cheaper because you can use a smaller engine and just force more air into the engine. the only power that comes from an engine is from the power stroke. so you get a bigger explosion, you get more power.

during idling, the turbo isn't spooling, so during idle, it maintains low fuel consumption. for larger engines, it's going to consume lots of fuel whether you're reving it or not.

a lot of car companies are switching(or they already are) to FI applications because it is much cheaper than building huge engines. ex, SAAB, mercedes, mitsubishi , subaru..., dodge:SRT-4

let's take a look at a lancer evo 8 and its 271 hp, 273 ft-lb torque.
they're getting all that power out of a 2.0 liter engine.

honda has done an excellent job with its 2.0 liter engine from the S2000, F20C, which boasted 240 hp and 153 ft-lb of torque, and this is NA. but I'm sure they did a lot more research and fine tuning to get it there.

mitsu probably just slapped on the turbo, cranked the boost and that's it.

[civickiller]

i think turbos are cheaper if your talking about a stock block boosted car. but if your talking about a 400whp turbo motor, to a all motor engine, then the turbo is more expensive

[rubix777]

well, I think a dodge viper v10 engine would be more expensive than a turbo civic with equivalent hp. heck, a twin turbo supra 3.0L could make make more power than that NA 8.3 liter engine.

[civickiller]

but we not talking about dodge, or toyotas or whatever, we talking about honda motors

all motor is more expensive if your talking about a stock block boosted b series engine

but turbo is more expensive if your talking about a 400whp boosted b sereis engine compared to a all motor engine.

so its hard to say which one is gonna be cheaper, it just all depends on how the motors are built

[Ricochet]

Turbo LS > all-motor LS
nuff said

[shaun1982]

what is spooling. im a noobie in the mechanical side of the engine department. my LS is auto. i have to stay with auto cause my family does auto. so i know that the LS auto is way sloweer the the gsr. but i previous car was a civic d16 vtec. and the LS has more power. i want to go N/a. my friends do turbo method and i want some thing differnt. plus the turbo is so expensive in insurance. so can some one tell me what can i do to the LS engine in N/a method. i will put a short ram air filter, cat back exhaust, headers maybe. i dont really want to go way full on in engine mods.

so can some one advise me on what to do next. after filter and exhaust what next. what are those things called in the middle of the valve cover whihc connect to that black box. are they spark plugs and wires. i read that u can change them for extra power. is that true. and what do u guys recommend if i do that, and can i do that my self or does a professional have too.

what next. i dont wanna do any mods inside the engine. cause if i can go to 160 hp or what ever. then thats alright for me. cause im not into performance really. just a little extra power and which will still be reliable as the stock.

[CivicSpoon]

Spooling is when the turbo starts to spin around enough to create boost. Each turbo is different with what rpm it will start making boost at. Without any internal engine work I doubt you'll be pulling 160hp (at least at the wheels.) I'd say get a cold air intake, header, exhaust. I think you're probably talking about an aftermarket ignition? Something like MSD (company name) with better spark plugs and wires; don't know that it'd really give you more power but it'd ensure that you start better and burn your fuel more efficiently. Other than that it's going to be hard to make a big gain in power unless you throw in some cams or something like that. But also you could get an automatic GSR motor and throw that in; it'd be 170-180hp right off the bat.

[civickiller]

get intake, header, exhaust, tb, and intake manifold. this will feed your motor more air adn therefore make more power. cams would greatly help. you could get one of those underdrive pulleys.

but if you were to put that much parts on it, it would probably run lean so you might have to put a fuel rail and or a fuel pressure regulator so richen it up. but thats about as much as your could do without doing an internal work

but if you wanted to go serious all motor, you should think about getting a vtec head

[jcrx]

IMO niether is better or worse, both have their good and bad points.
Both can be done fairly inexpensively, or both can cost an arm and a leg.
Both can be reliable, and both can need hella maintenance.

IMO on a street set up, with mild suspension, no more than 250-270hp either way in a Civic is needed to saughter most road cars. In a teg up it a little for the weight 250-300. You'll still be able to hold traction with street tires, you aren't killing your idle with crazy cam profiles. And with tubo those numbers can be had on a mild block build, and N/A on a good moderate compression (upper 11:1 range) B20vtec. I have a friend smoked a RX8 with his coupe and he is in the 180ish whp N/A range, not that that's a true race car, but hey, your on public roads, what do you want. In his old build, not too much different, he spanked a vette ( which as much as some Honda guys talk, I can tell you first hand, isn't happening with a simple swap and bolt ons) to I think he said 150ish then blew his motor. His new one is all bottom end, completely stock B16A head, so some cams, valvetrain, head work, and a good tune will be stabbing him towards if not over 200whp, completely streetable, and running with SRT-4s, STi, and smokin' a Firebird.