91 Park Avenue Timing Chain Cover Removal

[DioGreer]

The Camshaft Position Sensor Magnet broke inside my engine and I found out the only way it can be replaced is by removing the whole front engine timing chain cover exposing the timing chain.

This involves first taking off the front passenger wheel, and the splash guard to access the engine from the wheel well. Then the torque axis motor mount (the big one on the left) has to be removed. After that, the crankshaft pulley has to be removed, along with a few bolts and other items to gain access to the area behind the timing chain cover.

I was thinking that if this all had to be removed to fix this stupid $10 part, then while the left side of the engine was exposed, have the timing chain and associated components replaced.

My water pump is also subtly telling me it needs to be replaced (squealing sound in the morning..... could be the water pump, could be something else. havent really tried to diagnose the squeal yet.) The car has 80000 miles on it and its a 91. Low mileage is good and bad. The good is obvious, but the bad is that it spent the first 9 years of its life in south florida being driven by my grandfather only getting 45000 miles in that time.

Since I inheirited it, I have had to do quite a bit of work. Most notably getting the transmission overhauled... Now to get back on track. I want to replace the timing chain, associated gears, the stupid $10 magnet, and probably the water pump.

Looking in my 1991 buick park avenue service manual (just got it off ebay ) it looks like this is probably a task to leave up to the pros. The main concerns I will have if I try to do this myself are:
-Removal of the crankshaft pulley and having to mess around with the harmonic balancer, the crankshaft sensor and other crap that requires special tools and calibration (like the J 38197 Crankshaft pulley puller, almost reason enough to make me take this to the pros)
-Supporting the engine to disconnect the torque axis motor mount and while working inside the front cover
-yadda yadda

What would be a ballpark estimate to have all of the timing chain components replaced? (Im sure if they do this, the camshaft magnet labor will be negligible)

Would I save money getting a water pump put on while everything is off?

Anything else I should consider getting replaced while doing this?

Most notably--
Is there any *easy* way to replace the magnet that I have overlooked?


Thanks for your help.. If you are helpful, and dont have a copy of the service manual, I can give you valuable info from the manual in exchange for your help.

[aarcuda]

you basically have the whole shebang detailed. its actually isnt that hard but it does take about two hours.

So, at $80/hour it costs about $200.

BTW, taking the harmonic isn't too bad and all you need is a regular harmonic balancer puller (but make sure the end that goes into the balancer hole where the crank is is small enough to go into it but big enough where it doesnt ruin the threads in the crank)

I had to do this after having my engne rebuilt and the stupid shop didn't put the old maganet on the new timing gear. after putting the motor in, I got a check engine light and need to pull the cover and put the magnet in. luckily, the rebuild shop found my old magnet in the scrap pile. saved myself about $200.

[DioGreer]

My main concern is having to deal with the special tools needed to calibrate the new timing chain equipment. So that might keep me from trying to do this myself. Maybe I'll call a couple of old friends with some mechanical experience to help out.

I got a couple of estimates today for the work. They want about $650-700 for parts and labor for the timing chain parts, water pump and labor. Since I already bought the $10 magnet, one place told me I could bring it by when they were working on it and pop it in. Another place said its their policy to not install customer provided parts.. Oh well.

[aarcuda]

theres aboslutely no calibration needed. both the cam and the crank sproket are keyed so when you take the cover off and removed the bolt from the cam sproket, just put the new sproketts on the cam and crank making sure you dont TURN anything and they will be lined up just like before.

also, another thing you can do to verify nothing moved is that after you remove the cover, line up the dots on the old gears before you take it off (use the crank bolt to turn the motor over and then remove the top cam gear (loosen the bolt up first before you line up the dots up so that when you go to take it off it doesnt turn the motor over). this way if the crank or cam does move (which it should if you dont turn either one) you can just line up the dots again. but if you loosen the bolt first then line it up, the gears should just slide off and nothing should turn.

hell, I'd do the job for you for half that much. live anywhere near little rock?

[DioGreer]

Thanks for the offer, but I live in atlanta. I dont want to drive this on a long trip until its fixed. hehe. You make it sound like its easy. I just need to give myself at least 3-4 days to do it. Maybe I'll see if I can do it in a weekend and if not, take off a monday. Any recommendations on a source to pick up a new timing chain, gears, front cover gasket, water pump, water pump gasket and the tools besides typical auto parts places or (eek) a dealer?

[aarcuda]

Any autoparts store will have a timing chain gasket kit. It will have all the gaskets and the front timing cover seal. felpro is the best.

The only odd thing that i encountered when i did mine was the harmonic balancer. on the balancer (or at least the one on my 95 PA) had three smaller holes (metric not sure of size) for the puller to screw into. you may or may not know but a harmonic balancer puller is basically a three tee cross where the smaller bolts go thru holes in the three cross pieces and screw into the balancer. a much bigger center bolt screws into the center of the balancer and goes into the hole into the center of the balancer where you removed the crank boilyt from. the center screw pushed into the end of the crank (make sure it either fits completely into the hole in the crank where the screw came out or is big enough to NOT damage the crank threads but small enough to go thru the balancer center hole). when you tighten the center screwn the puller yanks on the balancer via the three smaller screws and pulls it off.

My oddity was that only two of the three smaller screws could be threaded because some sort of internla structure in the balancer prevented the third screw from threading. I still managed to get it off with two screws tho. I tighten the two small screws down so the cross piece was tight to the balancer (usually it floats an inch or so away) so it would slide to one side. does that make sence?

Anyways, you'll need to use an impact wrech to get the crank bolt off or else you'll only manage to turn the engine over if you use a breaker bar. Some engines allow you to grab the fly wheel with a pair of vice grips and then jam the crank with them allowing the bolt to be wrenched off. a big impact wrench is much easier.

[DioGreer]

Will any standard auto parts place sell the sprockets and chain too? How about renting the special tools?

I dont have an impact wrench, but in the service manual, there is a special tool that has teeth to hold the flywheel. It also has either a 3/8 or 1/2 socket adapter to attach to a wrench to hold the flywheel. I guess I could see if I could rent one of these.

Is it easy to access the flywheel? The service manual doesnt have much detail about accessing the flywheel on the car, but I would hope there is an inspection shield that can be removed to access the flywheel.

I might try to do this next weekend if I can get together some parts and tools this week. If so, I'll probably be posting alot this weekend .

[aarcuda]

any store should have the parts and probably the tools (impact wrench as well). as i may have said, vice grips work great on holding the flywheel.

the flywheel is easy to get to. just need to remove a small plastic cover (bitch to replace tho- ibroke mine slightly to make it go back in easier near the starter)

[DioGreer]

Well, I took the car in on saturday and had the pros do it.. I didnt feel like inventing new cuss words over the weekend .

Cost me $620 for:
timing chain and gears, installation
water pump and installation with new seals etc.
install the new cam sensor magnet
coolant flush and fill
oil change
front cover removal and reinstall with new seals etc.

it was evenly distributed with parts and labor each a little over $300

I think I did the right thing.. The most involved work I have done on a car is either a power steering pump replacement on a 1986 cutlass or a water pump replacement on a 92 dodge van. Both of those cars have plenty of room to work with and the buick is a bit tighter. In order for me to have done a good job doing this myself, I would have had to buy quite a bit of new tools.. Im still in college and dont have the money to buy new tools or a place to keep them besides my parents house.


Oh well. The car runs great now. Now my problems are mostly minor cosmetic issues (falling out headliner, ripped leather, etc.)

Thanks for the help.