Can you spare some change?

[jajimo]

Beggars. I'm pretty sure everyone has seen them. Is this a problem in the US? During my stay in Japan, I didn't see a single one, but while in Belize, I was asked more frequently than here in the States. I support freedom, and I think people should be allowed to do what they want, but I think that freedom is also limited when it encroaches on the rights of others... in this case, the right to walk down the street undisturbed.

I'm very split on this issue, because I understand that being unemployed, addicted to drugs, or suffering from severe mental disorders puts many of these people in the states that they are in, yet at the same time, I know that some of them are out there just because they know they can make more money with less effort than getting a real job. I also think my right to walk down the street undisturbed should be one of those "unalienable" ones mentioned in the Constitution.

The reason I mention this is because I work at a shop located on the campus of a university, and nearly every day, someone is sitting on our doorstep (literally) asking people for change. We have a "No Loitering" sign, but no one obeys it, and I think it may be somewhat preventing customers from coming into the store when someone is asking them for change at the doorstep. I feel bad for most of these people, but should I really have to? I know there are options for the homeless in this town (being especially liberal, there are many shelters, missions, independent pro-bono employment agencies, etc) besides sitting outside and begging for change.

I know, some people will say, all they are doing is asking you a question. What is so different from someone asking you what the time is? Well, in my opinion, when someone asks you the time, they aren't trying to persuade you, and I have observed many of the beggars in this area and that is what they do. On Saturday I observed a man on my door step say to himself that he should sit on the ground, maybe then people would give him some change since he'd had such bad luck on the door step, and this way they'd feel worst for him. There's another one who frequents this area, and every morning he sits in Starbucks and sips coffee, then he goes and stands on the sidewalk on campus, hunched over, asking for change.

I think my problem isn't so much with the asking part, or the change part, but with the persuasion part. If someone asks me at Taco Bell if I can spare 25cents because they're short of the $3.08 for their two bean burritos, I'm happy to give it to them. If someone has just parked their car and needs a dime to get that full hour out of the meter, I'm happy to help them out. Hell, I've even put change in a complete stranger's meter just because I noticed it has ran out. But I don't like being persuaded, and I especially don't like seeing people try to persuade others.

Maybe this is why I have a problem with petition-gatherers, and home solicitors also, I just don't think there's anything I can do about it...

Well, with home solicitors, I now have a sign next to my door (since the 120pt font one on my window wasn't clear enough) that reads "SOLICITORS WILL BE VIOLATED" and has a picture of two gay men in leather performing a bondage scene. I'm hoping that gets the point across.

[2strokebloke]

It was all worth reading until that last paragraph, kind of a weird note to leave off on isn't it? you may find you get more solicitors, being that they seem to thrive on abuse. The ones that can't commit suicide. Leave a noose by your door to make it easier for them.
As for the beggars - don't ever give them anything without getting something back in return, if they can do a trick, or give you directions, or tell a funny joke, or anything, 'cause their not getting money for nothing from me.

[MagicRat]

I agree on the post, for the most part. In my city, the mentally fit and normal homeless have options available to them for accomodation and social assistance. Here, homelessness for most is uncomfortable, but not life threatening. (The mentally ill homeless is a different story though)
Many panhandlers look for the easiest way. You may feel sorry for them, but they feel you are a sucker or an easy mark.
They rely on you being uncomfortable and manipulate you into giving money. Begging is intimidation. Do not be intimidated and do not give them money. It only encourages them. Boot them out and away from your store. It intimidates your customers and affects your livelihood.
It may seem to be harsh, but if we make it easy for the beggers, there will be more of them.

[replicant_008]

On my way to lunch - there's a bloke huddled on the footpath with a sign saying "No Home, No Income."

Now, apart from needing a good wash - he looks fitter and slimmer than me so I'm not tempted to throw any coins into his upturned hat.

I am tempted to suggest he can wash my car in the carpark for ten bucks or drop a Work and Income New Zealand advisor's business card into his hat so he doesn't have to beg - either that or note that Chinese Cooking Wine is available for about 3 bucks a bottle around the corner @ the Asian Grocers.

Cynical? You bet. After spending a fair bit of time in the part of the world called South East Asia and watching professional beggars fleece tourists and those passing by, more money in an hour than I could earn as a professional in a day's work then you'll have to be more talented than a blind pianist named Ray Charles and missing more limbs than a thalidomide babe to get me to reach into my pocket.

I've worked on the principle of reciprocal rights - you do a favour for me and I'll do one to the same or a higher value. I figure on most of my accounts that I'm about even or better on the ledger but it's always good having a favour or two you can call on when things are tight or you need a friend to help out.

At least being a good guy at some stage in my life might make up for the debit entries that I accrued a bit earlier...

[jon@af]

Yes, I myself have seen beggars in the streets. Not so much in my area, but definitely up in by chicago, as well as in other areas I have visited outside of Illinois. Having not dealt with it as much as you have, I don't think I can fully understand the amount of malice towards beggars you may have, but I do have an opinion of it.

Now, before I'm done, some of you may think me an asshole for my thought but...I don't care. So, if you're going to rip on me for it, save your breath.

I believe that beggars put themselves on the street. Plain and simple. Why should I feel sorry for them because they messed up their lives with drugs? I'm sorry, it wasn't ME who put the heroin needle in their arms or the crack pipe in their mouths. It wasn't ME who went to the dealer and bought the narcotics. If they want to do drugs, that's their issue to deal with. I don't feel I should give two shits if it puts them on the street, because it was their own doing, not mine.
I do, however, understand and have a bit of sympathy for, those with mental disorders who are on the streets. In many cases like this, they don't know any better, or can't help themselves. This is sad because, they are out in the world with little to no help, because either someone figured their life was not worth trying to assist in, or the persons who DID care for them may have passed on.

Unemployment. This is a problem with me when it comes to beggars simply because, they say they do not have a job, yet they are out in the streets trying to get money from people instead of actually LOOKING for a job. You'd think they could at least apply somewhere like McDonald's or the likes. Believe it or not, if you're willing to do with the work, people will hire you. I have a friend who is one of the more lazy people that I am acquainted with, and he went into Domino's Pizza and applied for a job as a driver. All they did was ask if he was 18, and if he had a vehicle and they told him to grab a uniform! A job is a job, even if it sucks for a while, it's still employment. Beggars can't be chosers (no pun intended).

That sucks to hear about the shop you work at. Tell them to get the hell off the property or you'll call the police. You have a right, it's private property on the doorstep of the shop, and there is clearly a sign warning that loitering is not tolerated.

Don't feel bad for someone who is too lazy to help him/her self or is too hooked on drugs/alcohol to even care. Save your sympathy for something that warrents it. Yes, it's a sad predicament they are in, but a lot of times (not all), the reason that a certain person is in a certain situation, in this case being on the street begging, is because of something he/she was involved with or did directly. Beggars are simply living with consequences for actions. Not all, I know, but many and most.

Now, that said, I can't say the same for different parts of the world. In Brazil I know that the population is so dense that there are hardly enough jobs as it is and people who have jobs are the lucky ones.

[jajimo]

I guess the reason I feel sorry for them, and the whole reason I bring up unemployment and what not, is that they may have made mistakes in the past, and now they acknowledge those mistakes and wish to make their lives better. I don't, however, see begging as the answer to this. If they hadn't eaten in 2 weeks and looked as if they were recently brought here from Ethiopia, then I'd probably shell out some money, or buy them a meal, but I've seen a lot of these people day after day asking for money.

You got it MagicRat, I think "intimidation" was more of the word that I was looking for, not just persuasion. I hate persuasion too, but intimidation is much closer to what I was trying to get at. Thanks =)

As far as the sign attracting more solicitors, well, my backup is a 3/4" steel pipe and few regrets =/

[jon@af]

Another thing is too, sometimes these "homeless people" aren't even homeless. I've seen people out begging for money on the streets in rags, and then later have seen them at the mall buying some new CD's and what not. I don't know. I'm just an untrusting bastard, so I usually don't hand out money to anyone unless it's one of the instances like those mentioned above, such as the needing a little extra to get a meal in line, or at a meter.

[freakray]

You guys need to visit South Africa, even disembarking the plane in Johannesburg I have been asked 'for a few cents'.
It's ridiculous!

[YogsVR4]

Jon voiced my feelings and Rep posted my thoughts.

No freebies and get the hell away from me - I've got enough things to worry about.

[Raz_Kaz]

Originally Posted by J_Swigz

Another thing is too, sometimes these "homeless people" aren't even homeless. I've seen people out begging for money on the streets in rags, and then later have seen them at the mall buying some new CD's and what not. I don't know. I'm just an untrusting bastard, so I usually don't hand out money to anyone unless it's one of the instances like those mentioned above, such as the needing a little extra to get a meal in line, or at a meter.

Thats so true and the reason why most people hesitate and doubt what that homless person is going to buy. I had a stranger come up to me and ask me for some change so he can buy food. So the kind person I am, I gave him a 5 since I had no change. He smiled and went on his way....later that day, I see his lying ass in front of me in the liquor store!!! I will never ive money to the homeless again, not because Im rich and uptight, which is so not true. But it's more on the reason that I do not feel like I should be helping them with their bad habits. Just my .02

[CarSuperfreak]

My church goes through the same thought patterns that you do; "what if this guy just goes straight from here to the liqour store?"

We've adapted either just giving out food we have at the food bank, or else we have (insert word i cant think of) not gift cards.....but like a store credit or something.....anyways, give them something that they have to buy food or something with, like even mcdonalds or something

[jajimo]

It's a good idea, I've seen people around town give them oranges or apples and what not, that way they pretty much have to eat it or else it'll go bad (they'd have to leave the corner to trade it in, and what, get $.75 for it?). I just think my fat ass would eat it before I got to one =)

[boingo82]

Previously, my mom had given a "starving" guy a sandwich. Not half-eaten or anything, but a nice wrapped restaurant sandwich. As soon as he thought she couldn't see him, he threw it out. Starving, my ass.

We only get a few beggars here, and they pretty much don't leave the freeway exits.

[RSX-S777]

Aw, I don't mind beggars. If they ARE trying to scam me...meh. Joke's on them- they are the ones sacrificing their dignity, standing on the cold street looking haggard and smelling putrid. If not, then I help someone out. Sometimes you have to give people the benefit of the doubt. A nickel or a dime here and there won't break the bank.

[HogieGT-R]

Originally Posted by CarSuperfreak

We've adapted either just giving out food we have at the food bank, or else we have (insert word i cant think of) not gift cards.....but like a store credit or something.....anyways, give them something that they have to buy food or something with, like even mcdonalds or something

Food Stamps ?