why should i believe in a religion?

[loismustdie]

i believe that there is a god, and the existense of a god has been debated in different threads, and i really don't want this thread to become about the existense of god. so people that don't believe in god, please don't post unless you have something to contribute to the purpose of this thread.

i was raised christian, but lost faith in the religion, i think that it is the most rational and makes the most sense out of any of the religions, but i didn't understand alot of what god did/does. much of the bible doesn't make sense to me. i don't find any other religions appealing. does anyone have a reason for me to join a different religion, or for me to return to christianity?

[ac427cpe]

if you need a reason, you shouldn't do it. religion is something that is defining to who you are. if you have to ask, it's not really you making the choice to be who you are.

[jon@af]

I can't tell you why should because that's not for me to tell you. That's for you to discover for yourself. You said yourself that you once believed, but lost faith. Well, the only help I can offer you is to look at why you stopped believing in the first place and ask yourself if it was really God's fault that it happened? Because, many things happen that people don't like and they automatically blame it on God because that's the easiest thing to do, instead of looking at sometimes themselves or others. Anywho, sorry if I was no help, but that's all I have to offer.

[BLU CIVIC]

lie any big projoct or big step in life....do research

[jajimo]

Why do you feel you need a religion to tell you what your beliefs are? Can you not look at the world around you and determine them for yourself?

Having personal beliefs is one thing, expecting someone to create them for you is a dangerous other.

Do you believe yourself to be a good person? If so, are their any religions out there who's deity would condemn you for being a good person? Would you really want to be a part of those religions?

The way I see it, you should believe in the beliefs you already have. If another comes along and makes sense to you, then take it. But forcing yourself into believing one thing or another only works consciously, it doesn't guarrantee that you will always feel that way. That doesn't mean you should never question your beliefs. Questioning yourself is the path to self-improvement. Ignoring blatantly obvious holes in logic is not faith. If you can question your beliefs, and determine that they stand up to your critique, then you are one step closer to finding the truth. Whatever that truth may be is completely determined by you.

[loismustdie]

i didn't leave christianity because my mom died or something, but because it didn't make alot of sense to me.

i have personal beliefs, and when i did believe in christianity i didn't just become a drone, i still had my own beliefs, but i believed in the whole jesus thing, but when i really considered what it all meant, god is what we, humans, would call a nazi, and many people are just blind to that...

i think i'm gonna start my own religion...

[jajimo]

5 posts until a Nazi reference, I do believe that's a record.

I assume you're talking about the whole anti-Semitism thing? I'll be honest with you, it's been a damn long time since I read any biblical scripture, and plus, when I actually did, I was a devout Catholic, so maybe it didn't occur to me at the time. Eitherway, I'm assuming most deities pre-date Nazi Germany (or atleast they should for their religion to hold up).

Creating a religion is a difficult task, let me reference to "Serial Experiments Lain," a Japanese anime series. You'll have to watch all 13 episodes to get what I mean, but you'll understand then.

The way the Japanese deal with religion itself is a particularly interesting aspect of their culture. I would also recommend doing some research on that topic. Basically, most Japanese don't adhere to a single belief system, but take parts of many others and combine them together. When I was last in Japan, my host family had both a Shintoist and Buddhist shrine in their house. To them a religion was not mutually exclusive.

Other things you may find interesting if you have not read them already, there is a book titled simply "Blade Runner" which deals with the creation, and purpose of its name-sake film. A short read, but intriguing none-the-less. Most stuff by Nietsche is pretty good also, whether you believe it or not, it makes you think. Almost forgot, check out Descartes also.

[jon@af]

It just depends on your point of view. I believe in God, and I believe that Jesus died for my sins as well as others. Now, there are those on these boards who would call me a lunatic for believing such a thing, but you know what? That's MY belief, not theirs.

That said, just because you believe in God, and Jesus, doesn't mean you have to give up EVERY single value that you hold that might not seem the best to some. For instance, when someone is a dick to me? I'm a dick right back. Screw their feelings, if they want to treat me like crap then they get it in return. Then there is swearing. In the bible, it says do not take the Lord's name in vain, yet nowhere does it say anything about "fuck" or "shit" or "bitch" and so on. Do you know why? Because those are words created by man, making them just words and nothing more. I don't think if you say a swear word every now and then, you're going to burn in hell, and those who think otherwise, need to pull their head from their ass.

We were meant to follow in God's footsteps. To do that, we are to follow and lead by example. As long as you give what you have to give to God in a relationship with him and don't pull any bones about it, then you're doing something. God doesn't expect perfection because there is no such thing among humans. He just wants you to be happy.

[jajimo]

You make very good points, your beliefs are your own and no one else's.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with your last statement. "We" is too broad of a term, because it makes the assumption that you are fully aware of your deity's intent. You may be meant to follow in his footsteps, but I, or the guy in the apartment below me, may not be. It is impossible to know such things.

However, I do understand your point. You believe, and you have faith in, a god which, when you follow by example, will lead you to being a better person, and on top of that, happy (always a good thing). It is dangerous, however, to use the objective pronoun "you" when referring to personal beliefs. This is something I will do as well, and please feel free to correct me when I do (we're all human, but that doesn't make us exempt from improvement). The problem lies in that when you speak of something personal, that is, something which does not necessarily apply to others, you should use "I."

For example:

"I was meant to follow in God's footsteps. To do that, I am to follow and lead by example. As long as I give what I have to give to God in a relationship with him and don't pull any bones about it, then I am doing something. God doesn't expect perfection because there is no such thing among humans. He just wants me to be happy."

This is not just about grammar, and certainly not about political correctness. This is about having intelligent discussions with peers. People get offended when you make assumptions about them and their beliefs. It is more beneficial to you to avoid doing so, and small, almost insignificant-seeming things such as grammar can affect whether this happens or not. By using "I" instead of "You" or "We," you are acknowledging that the other person doesn't necessarily believe what you do, and you're allowing them to actually listen to what you are saying, rather than simply refuting everything on the basis that you're pushing your beliefs on them.

[spooleffect]

Originally Posted by loismustdie

why should i believe in a religion??

Because you decide if its right for you and if you want to believe it or not.

[jon@af]

Originally Posted by jajimo

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with your last statement. "We" is too broad of a term, because it makes the assumption that you are fully aware of your deity's intent. You may be meant to follow in his footsteps, but I, or the guy in the apartment below me, may not be. It is impossible to know such things.

I am of the Nazarene denomination of the Christian faith. We (as a religion) believe Bible to be God's word. In the Bible, it is understood (by more than just myself) that God wants his people (we believers) to be happy and content in Him. The "we" was generalizing, I was making a post, and I'm fairly certain I got my point across either way. You're right, I'm not fully intent of EVERYTHING God has planned for me, but I'm not meant to be either. I'm not God after all. I just believe, and believing is the essence of faith.

Originally Posted by jajimo

However, I do understand your point. You believe, and you have faith in, a god which, when you follow by example, will lead you to being a better person, and on top of that, happy (always a good thing). It is dangerous, however, to use the objective pronoun "you" when referring to personal beliefs. This is something I will do as well, and please feel free to correct me when I do (we're all human, but that doesn't make us exempt from improvement). The problem lies in that when you speak of something personal, that is, something which does not necessarily apply to others, you should use "I."

I'll say things however I wish to say them. Once again, my point was made. You're looking far to deep into what I'm saying, especially when I never meant it to be looked into so deeply in the first place.

Originally Posted by jajimo

For example:

"I was meant to follow in God's footsteps. To do that, I am to follow and lead by example. As long as I give what I have to give to God in a relationship with him and don't pull any bones about it, then I am doing something. God doesn't expect perfection because there is no such thing among humans. He just wants me to be happy."

Thank you. I'll keep that in mind. May we discuss the topic?

Originally Posted by jajimo

This is not just about grammar, and certainly not about political correctness. This is about having intelligent discussions with peers. People get offended when you make assumptions about them and their beliefs. It is more beneficial to you to avoid doing so, and small, almost insignificant-seeming things such as grammar can affect whether this happens or not. By using "I" instead of "You" or "We," you are acknowledging that the other person doesn't necessarily believe what you do, and you're allowing them to actually listen to what you are saying, rather than simply refuting everything on the basis that you're pushing your beliefs on them.

You're right, it's not about grammar, which is why I fail to see the point of the many corrections you made on my behalf. However, this is not a petty argument either. That said, lets just forget the grammar lesson.

People get offended no matter what. You can't be afraid of saying something out of fear of offending someone else you'll never speak what you truly believe. I was generalizing my statements when responding the way I did, nothing more and nothing less. Frankly, I try not to offend people with what I say, even when speaking truths (note, I am not calling my posts in this thread complete truths, they are my beliefs) but I can't help how someone else MIGHT interpret what I say, and what they MIGHT think of it.

Also, I fail to see where I am forcing my beliefs on anyone. I am expressing my belief, not forcing it. Were I forcing it, I would be condemning the starter of this thread for even asking the question he did, but what good would that do, and where would it get anyone? He asked questions about God, I answered the way that I would should ANYONE ask. I didn't go into a rant about how "he needs to repent" because it's not my place to do that. I don't believe anyone should have religion forced upon them. Religion is such a subject that, if one wishes to have answers on it, one must be willing to seek the answers him/her self. I guarantee you that if I were an athiest curious about God, and someone came up to me telling me " you NEED to get God in your life or you'll go to Hell" or "A life without God is a wasted life" then I would be that much more turned away from the religion. This is the exact reason why I try not to push it on people.

[ac427cpe]

there are many good points here, and a few vagues ones... but there's only one thought process that bothers me. this quote:

"god is what we, humans, would call a nazi, and many people are just blind to that..."

could you elaborate on this?

[jajimo]

You're right, it's not about grammar, which is why I fail to see the point of the many corrections you made on my behalf. However, this is not a petty argument either. That said, lets just forget the grammar lesson.

Sorry, I said it is not just about grammar. The point of the post was about intent and expressed intent, and the grammar you used is a factor of this.

If you choose to forget the "grammar lesson" (which it was not intended to be one) then that is up to you. I offered this as a suggestion for better formulating the expression of your opinion. This is by no means a petty argument, as you said, which means nothing can be glossed over so easily as to simply skip the manner in which it is discussed.

You're right, you will say things in whatever way you wish to say them. But I can write a paper backwards and in Italian if I want to, but that doesn't mean it's going to make sense to whoever's reading it (nor will they interpret it in the meaning I wish them to). If you're content with simply writing (or saying) something without regards for how it will be interpretted, then you might as well not write or say anything at all.

If I were to disregard my concern for offending others, then I could spout off about how I think Christians should be forced to work in slave labor camps and exterminated whenever they become useless. That's not what I believe at all, but the point is, if I make such a statement, I seem like an asshole and any potential argument I may have following that is ultimately void. Also, it would do me a great deal of good if I actually considered why my statement would offend other people, instead of assuming there is simply something wrong with them.

I didn't intend to say you were forcing your beliefs on anyone. I said that if you avoid using a broad term such as "you" when discussing personal beliefs with others who may or may not agree with you, then you avoid alienating them against your cause.

I am of the Nazarene denomination of the Christian faith. We (as a religion) believe Bible to be God's word. In the Bible, it is understood (by more than just myself) that God wants his people (we believers) to be happy and content in Him.

This is much less ambiguous than the previous one, and very few people would probably have any problems with this, unless they were being a dick for no reason and wanted to argue with you about the existence of your god or the truthfulness of your bible. Which is an absolutely pointless task because no one is going to be convinced of anything.

he "we" was generalizing, I was making a post, and I'm fairly certain I got my point across either way.

I could not discern between "we" as in your religion and its followers and the "we" of the human race, how could I have known this? You didn't mention that you were speaking about only your fellow Christians. You talked about people on this board who would disagree with you, people who are dicks and people who needed to pull their heads from their asses.

Again, I responded to your post to offer a suggestion. I thought you had good points that only needed to be slightly polished. If you don't want to listen to my advice, which I had hoped to offer in a friendly manner and with good intention, then that is totally your decision.

[jon@af]

I appreciate the offer of help and apologize if I came off as a jerk (again, one of those things). My point is, what I said in the first place, though perhaps a bit "unpolished" in spots, made it to your understanding, and that's what counts. I responded to your post the way I felt necessary with the thought in mind of what I thought you were trying to convey to me. If I misinterpreted what you meant, I'm sorry. I responded to what I read.

[ac427cpe]

from here on out when using a general term i.e. "we" "you" please specify the extent of the group represented. and on this, can we try to get back on topic?