H22A V.S LS/VTEC Please help.

[HondaCivicSI]

Hey i just got myself a 2000 Civic EX and im looking for a motor swap, yea sure i have done all my research and i have brought it down to the last 2 motors H22A or LS/VTEC (for running high lbs of TURBO)

I WANT THIS TURBO FOR HIGH LBS OF BOOST.

H22A
i went down to a shop that does REALLY good work and they told me for the H22a in my civic i will be able to keep my powersteering, but for TURBO i will have to take out my A/C(who cares). They said i would be hauling ass with that motor but the weight in the front will affect turning ability, then they said not to worry about it because with the right suspension it would turn as good as any other car. So what do u think?

LS/VTEC
for this motor they told me they could make it work perfectly mixing heads on motors, and they also told me that with turbo i could at least run 17 Lbs of boost stock with a HONDATA controller. Not bad i said, but i dont know what head to put on the LS? I've seen alot of different combinations, but whats the best one? and i also heard the Integra Type R Intake Manifold is a beast on motors? so what head should i use? and what kind of power would i expect out of this...... thank you

Thank you for all suggestions.

[eckoman_pdx]

17psi on a stock block is a little high for an LS. An LS can safly handle upwards of 12psi on a stock block, more than any other honda motor. The H22 has cylinder walls that are to thin, so it can't handle much more than 8psi on stock internals and sleeves. Also, the H22 will cause a lot of understeer, so basically you won't turn worth anything. The car will go fast is a straight line but can't corner. This is becuase it adds to much weight to the front of the car, throwing off the natural balence.

If you want to run 17psi safely and not blow up your motor, you'll want to build the motor. You'll be able to run more boost on the LS than an H22. H22's can't handle more than 8psi max on stock internals and sleeves, and the LS can handle upwards of 12psi on stock internals. The H22 isn't a great motor for boost, and as I said (and the shop said), you can't turn worth a damn with them. A suspension will only take you so far in correcting that. I'm not a fan of H22's in Civics for this reason, and I know plenty of people on here agree. I'd go with the LS/Vtec out of those choices. If you do an LS/Vtec, don't rev it much past 7K on stock internals, as the LS block is designed for a redline around 7K. Don't rev it to 8000K like you might do with a GSR, the internals and the short block of the LS weren't designed for that high a redline. Just because you have a Vtec ITR, GSR, or B16A head doesn't change the fact the LS short block wasn't designed to rev ultra high like those blocks. You might have a head from those motors, but your block is still as LS.

[CivicSpoon]

I'd also like to say that you should lower the compression in either of these engines if you're planning on boosting it. Just do some sleeves, pistons, rods, maybe a thicker head gasket, and I'd think you'd be fine. I know a guy who turbo'd his LS/vtec; it ran great for a while until he set the psi to 12 or so (could have been a little higher) and boom blew out his pistons i believe. So definently do some motor work before you turbo. But with the h22, there's no way they can get your car to have the turning ability of other cars. You're still going to get a workout with pulling that steering wheel when turning, it is a beeitch. My buddy's got a 95 civic 4dr that he just put a turbo onto his h22 (running 10-12 psi); unfortunately it's still being tuned this week but should know soon how it turned out. But unless you just care about ¼ mile times; go with the B.

[udelblue]

go to importreview.com they advice not to put an h22 in a civic and for good reason

[SiGNAL748]

go ls/vtec

h22 is simply not worth it in that chassis unless you're building an all out drag car.

[boosted331]

Originally Posted by CivicSpoon

I'd also like to say that you should lower the compression in either of these engines if you're planning on boosting it. Just do some sleeves, pistons, rods, maybe a thicker head gasket

Unless he has plans for 450+ WHP you don't need sleeves, TONS of people are making power with a blockguard and pistons and rods, so why go to all the extra trouble of sleeving. Doesn't need a thicker headgasket if he's getting new pistons and rods either, all that does is mess up your quench and make the motor more suceptable to detonation.

[SenseiAccord]

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

...the H22 will cause a lot of understeer, so basically you won't turn worth anything...

Isnt it oversteer since the h22 is like 300lbs heavier than a b-series setup? More weight in the front... more the front tires are clued to the road... more grip... more steer.

But yea dont do either. H22 creates to much oversteer in civics and ls/vtec is basically a fragile GSR motor.

If u have a civic just run a CTR motor. That motor was made for ur car (civics). It is a prefect high reving motor. Or you can swap in a GSR motor. ls/vtec is just a new way of building a motor so thats why it is so popular plus it amazing power output. Later on in the future u are gonna see it die out. Its like steroids. A new way of building muscle rapidly. Later find out it is unhealthy so now less people use it now.

[boosted331]

If you think the .04:1 difference in rod/stroke ratio between the LS and the GSR means anything, you're a fool. A properly assembled high revving LS/VTEC with new pistons/rods that has been balanced will live just as long as a high revving GSR will.

[CivicSpoon]

Originally Posted by boosted331

Unless he has plans for 450+ WHP you don't need sleeves, TONS of people are making power with a blockguard and pistons and rods, so why go to all the extra trouble of sleeving. Doesn't need a thicker headgasket if he's getting new pistons and rods either, all that does is mess up your quench and make the motor more suceptable to detonation.

True true but not all h22's can use a blockguard, with the closed decks. I personally wouldn't be comfortable running high boost on the stock sleeves, but i guess that's just my opinion. But he never said how much boost he'd run specifically on the h22; I was just trying to cover bases. I guess a thicker headgasket would be pointless with low comp pistons; but why would it cause detonation by lowering the compression by .2 more with a headgasket?? I don't know; guess i've got a lot to learn...

[boosted331]

Originally Posted by CivicSpoon

True true but not all h22's can use a blockguard, with the closed decks. I personally wouldn't be comfortable running high boost on the stock sleeves, but i guess that's just my opinion. But he never said how much boost he'd run specifically on the h22; I was just trying to cover bases. I guess a thicker headgasket would be pointless with low comp pistons; but why would it cause detonation by lowering the compression by .2 more with a headgasket?? I don't know; guess i've got a lot to learn...

I wasn't talking about an H22, I was talking about a B-series. H22's are a waste of money to put em into a civic and turbo them.

About the detonation thing, it relates to quench and squish. You can search on the internet for info about it if you want to, but I don't feel like explaining it in detail. For the simplistic explanation, the further away the cylinder head is from the piston at TDC, the more likely the motor is to experience detonation. That is why it is better to go with dished pistons/bigger combustion chambers than to try and run a thicker headgasket to lower compression.

[Got22?]

All this H22 Dising is bullshit, unless your Drifting (a FF drive car?) or running a circut the slight understeer is not a problem. The H22 setup in a civic is a rush to drive and turbo is not a problem with some internal work done.

[darkerdayz]

the h22 is 180 lbs over b-series, not 300 lbs. and with the proper suspension, wouldnt this compensate for the slight understeer. i've read everywhere that a good suspesion kit (which means good money) that lowers your car about 2 inches will compensate for the understeer. and not to mention, a boosted h22 civic would have more torque than a boosted ls/vtec.

[eckoman_pdx]

The point is, the extra weight over the wheels in front creats more understeer...can you modify the suspension to help compinsate for this? Yes, you can....can you modify the suspension with a b-series to further improve handling...yes...and it won't have that extra understeer to start with...however, you can do that with any car or motor... I know that to some the "slight understeer" doesn't matter. For me it does...You can notice the understeer on faster turns, and I'd rather do without it and go with a b-series if it's a civic...but it's your money, do what you want.

[civichatch982]

yea .. alot of people dont realize with a hondata and the correct tunigng you can push ALOT of psi through yoru car. we have a integra type R turbo in my crew and he's pushing 25 psi on his stock internals. I was personaly a big fan of ls/vtec, but again its alot of work to get everything working properly on it. not to mention it will throw temper tantrums on you all the time. The h22 is a really powerful engine, but at teh same time really heavy, you would need prelude front suspension and just look at it like this, take yoru car now, and have 1 or 2 pretty good sized people sit on your hood. thats roughtly the weight your going to put in there. I've seen both set ups I've seen ls/vtec turbo, which was really really dann fast (and in the shop right now.. . temper tantrum) and I've seen an h22 droped into a delsol, it was decent... just keep in mind that yoru h22 is alot bigger adn heavier than a b-series. so have fun changing your oil filter, its really hard to get to. and it weighs a ton. well hopefully I've helped a little bit

[CivicSpoon]

Prelude suspension on a civic, is that what you said??? And changing the oil filter isn't hard to do, believe me my buddy with the h22 in his 4dr would be bitching like crazy if it was hard to get to; seeing as how he's changed his oil and filter about 4 or 5 times in the past month. And is your buddy with the ITR using regular pump gas with that 25psi?