Upgrade questions

[integralover]

yea i know that i have an integra, but my friend has a 2000 gt V6 and was asking me alot of upgrade questions. i know alot for integra's but not eclipse. he has a nice stock exhaust on there, im not sure the size for stock, but is that something that he should consider upgrading to increase his performance? and if so what type of exhaust is good for the eclipse? not a coffee can sound either. and what about headers? should he also get a high flow cat? and he already ordered the CAI, so no need to mention that. so what are the beginings for making some extra HP for this car? thnx alot.

[johnnyBgood]

Well, the V6 is alot of work. The stock exhaust system is quite good, with the most restrictive piece being the muffler itself. If he gets a Magnaflow Race series muffler, that will free up his exhaust and he will gain a few whp back (4-5). Headers cost between $800 and $1300. The $1300 headers do provide a 40whp gain and they are truly the best headers ever designed for the V6. they are made by Hy-Tech. DC sports is currently working on 3G headers, and should be out fairly soon. Oh, a short shifter would probably be a good idea too.

If he get's headers, muffler, and Injen CAI, the next mods that I suggest would be a HKS SAFR and an hour or so of dyno tuning. That will lean out his stock A/F's to the most desireable point. Some spark plugs and wires would be a good idea too, as the stock ones are already 4 years old.

He can do that to get alot of NA gain (maybe 210-220whp), but to make it quick in the corners I would suggest the Road/Race Engineering rear strut tower bar. It is $70 and worth every penny. The next mod would be Suspension Techniques rear sway bar. Then get Tokico Illumina shocks (or Tein SSP w/EDFC, if he has the dough), or KYB AGX' (all adjustable).

[Igovert500]

NO HEADERS will ever give you a 40whp gain....EVER

Intake/header/exhaust will give you ~15whp together...

[integralover]

wow, he is going to have alot to do. damn my teg is alot cheaper to upgrade. but thnx for the info guys and if there is anyhting else please let me know

[Igovert500]

intake/headers/exhaust...then forced induction. its the same deal with every car.. More oxygen, the more gas to support the oxygen. Once he has a turbo then larger pump and injectors, AF controller and proper tuning. Spark plugs and wires as well as a good tune up should be done before you start modding if the car has some miles on it.

[integralover]

yea he has 40k miles on it. he wants to get an exhaust but not sure what kind he does not want the coffe kind either. he does not really have a budget.

[johnnyBgood]

THE BOTTOM LINE: Hytech has created a PHENOMONAL exhaust system/headers. The entire exhaust system (from headers-back) might be considered "expensive" until you realize that you've just gained 40+ horspower (whereas a cat-back gives a measly 4hp). So is it worth it? hell yes. Like I said, headers are an artform and Hytech are masters.

(psst... you're gonna need an Air/Fuel computer such as the APEX'i S-AFC when you get Hytech headers.)

So yes, the whole exhaust, not just headers. But for 40hp, that is excellent. Hy-Tech has been in the racing world for 18+ years with formula races, so I would trust their judgement about what creates power and what does not.

[Igovert500]

what did I just say..."NO HEADERS will ever give you a 40whp gain....EVER"
you need to realize that when they claim 40hp, what they do is to take a hooked up car with a turbo, well tuned, and fully modded, then they subtract the headers and dyno it. Then when they add the headers...miraculously they gain 40hp.. There is no header...I repeat NO HEADER/EXHAUST that gives you 40hp (at the crank or at the wheels) it just doesn't happen!!!) THE BOTTOM LINE: you watched F&F 3 or 4 times too much. Learn your sh!t, without forced induction a v6 will never gain that much hp from headers/intake/and exhaust combined!

[Rulez]

The hytech headers dyno'd at a +32hp gain. That may not be 40hp, but its close enough for me.

[Igovert500]

I would believe it if I saw dyno numbers for a stock car, and then a stock car with these headers. Generally when they claim that kind of gains, it is on a fully modded car. They take off the aftermarket part being tested. Replace it with the restrictive stock one, dyno it, (lets say 300hp for arguments sake) then they bolt on the aftermarket part(hytech header) and they dyno and amazingly they get (332hp). That is how all companies come up with numbers like that. Or they put their headers on the most restrictive car, lets say a 1967 ford pos, and they gain 32hp on that car. I have never heard of such incredible power gains from replacing headers unless you are combing it with lots of boost, ie forced induction. (we are talking about an N/A eclipse right..?)

If you have a link to dyno charts of the aforementioned stock cars by a person who isn't working for hytech headers then I would believe it, otherwise, I think it's just marketing propoganda.
If it's true then that is awesome, but I have my doubts.

[johnnyBgood]

I watch TFATF too may times? Yeah right. No car in TFAFT even has headers, they are ALL turbo'ed! DUH. TFAFT is a fictional movie and anyone who thinks it is a real portrayal is as bad as the acting.

I run a performance parts company and this is my job. I research this stuff. Do not talk to me about 3G parts unless you know for a FACT that, and it is apparent that you don't or have not even lookd at the Hy-Tech headers/exhaust

what did I just say..."NO HEADERS will ever give you a 40whp gain....EVER"

There are things in the automotive technology world that you have not seen yet, I have not seen yet, etc. Please do not make such a blanket statement without even the time to look for yourself. What you said is your opinion. I have facts to back up my claim. When you can present me facts that headers/exhaust have never, are not, and will never give a 40HP gain, then I may believe you.

Have you even seen the inside of the 3G V6 stock exhaust manifolds? They are horrendous. Even without facts, I still would think that a quality product would give a 40HP gain.

what they do is to take a hooked up car with a turbo, well tuned, and fully modded, then they subtract the headers and dyno it.

Question. The V6 Eclipse does not have come with a turbo, so why would they even dyno one, when it is FI, and make it naturally aspirated. They would be removing the turbo and turbo manifold, adding NA headers, and dynoing then. That right there would be a loss of over 100whp, if the car was well tuned. So I think that one point is negated right there. Or were you talking supercharged? Well, the SDs is popular system among 3G owners. So if they dyno the car with the SDS, remove it, Dyno it on stock headers, put on the Hy-Tech headers, dyno it again, then add the SDS, that would be more than a 40HP gain. Just an FYI.

[Igovert500]

Sorry I didn't mean to start an argument, and I should have prefaced it better, but I hate when people say put on a CAI or something and gain 20whp. Obviously we have differing opinions, and desire proof of the others claims. I didn't mean to be so hostile, my apologies there. And yes I know that turbos have exhaust manifolds/downpipes, by name, but essentially in function, they are the same thing.
You are completely correct, that there are things out there that neither of us have seen, there will always be. I just have a really hard time believing such claims.
Obviously I cannot prove that no headers will ever give you 40hp, there are too many out there to try...etc, the blanket statement's purpose was to express my sincere skepticism. In my experience people that claim tremendous amounts of hp from throwing on a K&N, headers, and exhaust don't put nearly the amount of power to the ground that the company originally claimed.
You said it is your job to research these types of products...can you point me towards any of the results of this research so that I might see I am wrong for myself?
All I am trying to say is that a company has to market its products, and they obviously give us a slanted perspective as they are the ones making money off of our purchasing decisions. I did try and check out hy Tech's page, and their link to the 3rd Gen eclipse section was dead and wouldn't load. I tried running a search on the web and came up with very little, other than some praise for it being a good product...I don't doubt that it is, for $1400 I would be pissed if it weren't a good product. But I simply wont believe 40hp without proof.

[Igovert500]

And to respond to the 2nd half of your last post, I think there was miscommunication, what I meant was that when companies test a product to come up with those numbers, they use a highly modified car, not stock. Everything is modified except the part they intend to replace. That part(header) is left stock, and is highly restrictive and hinders all their modifications on the first dyno. Then they miraculously get huge power gains when they add their product for the 2nd dyno run. Not that they remove the rest of the modifications/FI.

[Rulez]

I saw a dyno sheet from a member of Club3G showing the 32whp gain. I will see if I can find it for you.

[Rulez]

Here is the original data:
http://www.honey-bestway.com/HT_Dyno/Orig_Data.htm

Horsepower Curves:
http://www.honey-bestway.com/HT_Dyno/HP_Chart.htm

Torque Curves:
http://www.honey-bestway.com/HT_Dyno/T_Data.htm

Change in HP and torque:
http://www.honey-bestway.com/HT_Dyno/Diff_Data.htm

You can see the gains are pretty good.