General guestions about subs, amps ..

[slinker]

My car is an 89 jeep cherokee 4 door.

I currently have 4 speakers in it (stock locations) two 5.25s in the front doors and two 5.25s in the "tailgate". My head unit is some kind of generic cd player pushes 4 X 15 watts I believe.

My goal is to get the best sound I can for a minimal amount of money (under, say, $500). I dont need anything thats gonna impress other drivers, just something that I can crank as loud as i want and still have it sound good. Prefer rock, metal some hip hop incase its gonna make a difference.

Ok so I guess my questions are ...

1- Any suggestions based on that so far?

2- How big/many (if any) subs do i need for decent bass? Is one
8",10" or 12" enough?
a-Is brand important, or will a generic sub perform pretty much as
well as a more expensive one?
b- Will standard walmart boxes work for them?

3- Would an amp help things?

4- Would a more powerful headunit make a difference?

5- Could a more powerful headunit power a sub, without using an amp?

6- also if not too much trouble could someone give me real quick rundown on the process of hooking up an amp ..

Thanks

[GSteg]

what exactly do you need? new speakers also? or just amp, headunit, and subwoofer?

[Haibane]

My man, you have the same type vehicle as me... just older. I would go with an amp and a 12". Brand is important. I would hit up RE or ED. Don't get a walmart box. It works, but sounds like crap. I can custom build you a box for 200, but you can probably find a good deal on a prefabricated box at some sound place. for 500... I can do box, amp and sub for about 480ish. A powerful headunit can power a sub, but it won't be very hearable. the power on a headunit is a hoax, no need to change headunits unless it skips or you want better eq. Hooking up an amp. Disconnect negative on battery. ground a wire from negative to some metal on a frame(4guage). Run a remote wire to the remote on your headunit. Run a power wire to your battery(4guage). Run RCAs to your headunit. A wiring kit will cost you about 20 on ebay shipped. Shipping costs on that box would cost about 50 so I would have to work something out there.

[aznxthuggie]

Originally Posted by Haibane

My man, you have the same type vehicle as me... just older. I would go with an amp and a 12". Brand is important. I would hit up RE or ED. Don't get a walmart box. It works, but sounds like crap. I can custom build you a box for 200, but you can probably find a good deal on a prefabricated box at some sound place. for 500... I can do box, amp and sub for about 480ish. A powerful headunit can power a sub, but it won't be very hearable. the power on a headunit is a hoax, no need to change headunits unless it skips or you want better eq. Hooking up an amp. Disconnect negative on battery. ground a wire from negative to some metal on a frame(4guage). Run a remote wire to the remote on your headunit. Run a power wire to your battery(4guage). Run RCAs to your headunit. A wiring kit will cost you about 20 on ebay shipped. Shipping costs on that box would cost about 50 so I would have to work something out there.

did u say a very powerful head unit can power a sub? do you think that the amp in the head unit which is probably barely 52 x 4 MAX can power a sub? u can't even bridge the head unit speaker power wires to make it work, i have a alpine 9807 hu that puts out 50 x 4 max, and that wasn't enough for me, because i bump music too much, my head unit blinks when i turned it up too high, so i got a 60 rms x 4 amp for my speakers, i got mb quart 6 x 9 and infiniti 5.25s that shit is loud enough to make your ears ring, and i got 2 12 sony p5s pushing 300 rms each, with a kicker amp (300rms x 2) when i turn it up my whole car shakes, you can't read the street signs because if ur inside my car, they look like they are moving, my mirrors all start shaking, my headlights dim because i dont have a capacitor and your hair and face shake, also dont stand infront of my subs cuhz your pants will start shaking i got all this for .. lets see.. $1100

but for $500, im not quite sure.. you can get a type alpine type r 12 or a kicker comp 12 for like $150 with a bandpass box made for one sub then an amp for that will be about $100 (having one sub will be loud, but if u add more subs, the bass will "hit" inside, or like mines you will feel the bass more) but for rock one sub should be enough so lets say u spent $250 already u still got $250, u can get a decent cd head unit for $100 another $150 for front and back speakers, something like sony or infinity

i think i myself went overboard with the system, i use to just have my stock front speakers, pioneer 6 x 9's a small 150 x 2 rms amp with 2 JBL 10's that were exactly 150 rms, that sounded good from the inside, but from the outside it was all slurred and u couldn't hear the bass really well.. so.... i spent another like $600-800 and now im temporarily broke and im afraid to turn up my system

[slinker]

In answer to GSteg - I think I need more bass; which i guess would need to come from a sub. From what i hear you pretty much need an amp to power a sub, so i will probaly need an amp also. As far as the headunit I would like a new one *but* the one i have works so i dont feel thats a big rush, only thing is , would it save me alot of trouble to have the headunit i want in there when i hook up the amp, rather than having to do it again later when i get a new headunit? As far as the current speakers its two Sony Xplods (5.25s, 3ways) up front and some hella generic walmart $7 5.25s in the back. I want to move the xplods to the back and add some compenent 5.25s in the front.'

Haibane - what makes a box suck? Is it the size, shape, or material it is made? Or is is something else? Can you give me an example of a place to ground the amp? Just any piece of metal on the interior? Also what is the difference between the remote wire and the rca's which you said both run to the headunit? I mean what do they do? Ive been looking up some headunits and some say they have pre-amp outputs how do these apply? im pretty sure my headunit doesnt have these though ... Being that you have a cherokee also, where did you place your amp? I am thinking about just attaching it to my box (when i get em) , is that advisable? Also do you have a 4 door? Do you have speakers in the rear doors? If so, did it come with them or did you have to add them?

Thanks for the help guys

[slinker]

aznxthuggie- thanks for the advice. BTW what does "bridge the head unit speaker power wires" mean? Also what do the letters RMS stand for? So If i get one 12" and its 300 RMS, what would the amp i buy/need be? 150rms X 2? Does that mean its got 2 seperate ports each putting out 150 rms? Can they be combined? Do they sell amps with only on port?
thanks

[Haibane]

You can make a sub move with 10 watts. I have four door. Boxes, material and design generally. I have aftermarket speakers, but it started with speakers in rear. Place the amp on the back of th rear seat. RCAs plug into the pre out. The remote wire connects to the remote wire on the headunit. Ground the amp on metal. I think under your rear seat would be a good idea. Try to ditch the sony crap. Look at CDTs on www.thezeb.com pretty cheap, but great quality. Alpine, love the company, but too expensive for the sound reproduction. The subs lack in the power compared to other private high quality companies. I have heard 2 12 alpines doing 800 rms, and they no where near compare to the quality or the volume of my single 15 made by RE.

[Haibane]

Originally Posted by slinker

aznxthuggie- thanks for the advice. BTW what does "bridge the head unit speaker power wires" mean? Also what do the letters RMS stand for? So If i get one 12" and its 300 RMS, what would the amp i buy/need be? 150rms X 2? Does that mean its got 2 seperate ports each putting out 150 rms? Can they be combined? Do they sell amps with only on port?
thanks

Use the term channel instead of port, port is in box building. I suggest getting a mono, or one channel amplifier for one or 2 subs or more. Don't buy A/B amps for subs. Too much draw on the battery. Class D monos are much more efficent. Also you need to know the ohm rating of the amp and the sub.

[aznxthuggie]

Originally Posted by slinker

aznxthuggie- thanks for the advice. BTW what does "bridge the head unit speaker power wires" mean? Also what do the letters RMS stand for? So If i get one 12" and its 300 RMS, what would the amp i buy/need be? 150rms X 2? Does that mean its got 2 seperate ports each putting out 150 rms? Can they be combined? Do they sell amps with only on port?
thanks

well when i said the bridge head units part i dont know how, because from all the head units i played with the have 4 speaker wires front right front left rear right rear left, and u CAN power a sub with those, but they are generally made for speakers, and im not really sure exactly how much an amp would cost to make 300rms, but for the most people 300rmsis enough

and yea the amp i had was 150 x 2 at 4 ohms, it was made for speakers but since it could power my old subs then i just used it when it says x 2 there are 2 channels most of the 2 channels can be bridged into a mono channel usually taking a positive from one channel and a negative from the other channel, my friend is actually bridging his 4 channel amp and it makes 200 rms x 2 at 4 ohm

i dont know why but multi channel amps usually cost less than the mono amps, i think because the mono amps can push more power, and they are ment for subwoofers

[aznxthuggie]

if i were you i wouldn't spend all $500 at once, you shoudl upgrade step by step starting with a head unit, thats what i did, first i got a head unit, then i upgraded my speakers, when it wasn't enough i got an amp for my speakers, then i got the amp/subs at the same time, that cost me a good $500 jus for the amp/subs =*(

the majority of my friends have one 12 inch sub that is around 300-400 watts, and it is already pretty good, when u move up to a 15 inch with 500 watts its pretty loud, me and some other of my friends have 2 x that, we have 2 12s that run about 300-400rms each, and some of my insane friends have 3-4 subs and run about 1000+ rms thru all 3/4 subs

well i'll list out an AVERAGE price range for you, because i go downtown alot here in LA and they have a street dedicated to car audio

cd head unit - $100-$180
mp3 head unit $200-$400

for speakers...
6 x 9 speakers $50-$140
6.5 component $90-$170
5.25 2 component $80-$150
6.5 $50-90
5.25 $50-90

for amps.. the prices are really different depending on the brand, same with subs, but here are some subs u can get for cheap that also are loud

Kicker comp VR 12 inch 400 watts rms 800 peak $160
Sony xplod p5? (the red octagon shape one) 12 $120 pair
Alpine type R 12 $125 each

i think those are ok, and for the best in car audio (not at the competition level yet)
you should get kicker L5/L7s (the square subs)
JL Audio 12w6 or just any JL Audio (not jbl)
for amps it would have to me PPI or Precision Power amps
and Nakamichi amps (they cost A GRIP)

for speakers it would be Infinity / MB Quarts for the Highs / and Nakamichi for overall

[aznxthuggie]

and there are three commonly used types of Subwoofer boxes

the first and i think most commonly used is Sealed
it gives the bass a really accurate sound, it isn't the loudest, but the bass is tight and many subs in a sealed will "hit"
sealed is what it sounds like, its just sealed in a box with no holes etc

the second is Ported
this is also used alot, but usually custom ported boxes sound really good
a ported box is like a sealed box, but the difference is that there is a hole or some opening so air can be pushed out of the box

now the bandpass is the loudest one, think of a sub inside a box, the whole sub, and the only thing that lets air out is thru the holes on the box, dam i suck at explaining ima find u a link

[aznxthuggie]

well here ya go
http://www.jlaudio.com/tutorials/magic/index.html

it should help alot =)

[aznxthuggie]

Originally Posted by slinker

My car is an 89 jeep cherokee 4 door.

I currently have 4 speakers in it (stock locations) two 5.25s in the front doors and two 5.25s in the "tailgate". My head unit is some kind of generic cd player pushes 4 X 15 watts I believe.

My goal is to get the best sound I can for a minimal amount of money (under, say, $500). I dont need anything thats gonna impress other drivers, just something that I can crank as loud as i want and still have it sound good. Prefer rock, metal some hip hop incase its gonna make a difference.

Ok so I guess my questions are ...

1- Any suggestions based on that so far?

2- How big/many (if any) subs do i need for decent bass? Is one
8",10" or 12" enough?
a-Is brand important, or will a generic sub perform pretty much as
well as a more expensive one?
b- Will standard walmart boxes work for them?

3- Would an amp help things?

4- Would a more powerful headunit make a difference?

5- Could a more powerful headunit power a sub, without using an amp?

6- also if not too much trouble could someone give me real quick rundown on the process of hooking up an amp ..

Thanks

1.well for my suggestions they cost too much, but go for something other than generic lets say.. (kicker/RF/JL/JBL/Alpine/sony/MTX/Audiobahn)
2.a. it really depends on you, for me.. i just keep spending and spending.. but i think one sub 8/10/12/15 running at 300 watts rms is enough
b. nah no walmart boxes, look at the link i gave u

3. an amp will power either the subs or the speakers, your head unit has a built in amp, but it is really weak, usually putting our 25 RMS x 4 while the amp im using right now puts out 60RMS x 4 or a 4 channel which i think is 2 x as loud it will also keep distortion low, because from my experience once u turn the head unit too high it gets distored, and sounds ... weird

4. i think its not really the power of the head unit, but the brand, for a fact, i think alpine is really nice, i got my 9807 mp3 one for $220 downtown, clarion is ok, pioneer mp3 players lag, panasonic ones are pretty good, sony ones are good, kenwood is ok too, but if you are into LOUD MUSIC i say just get a 4 channel or 2 channel amp for your speakers

5 i dont know taht many peopel that used head units to power subs, bu tthey have, and it isn't that loud

6. well for me i have my amp in the trunk i ran a 4 guage power wire thru a fuse that i bought and into the battery, for the ground i drilled into my chassis in the trunk near where u put the spare tire, and i have the ground wire on a screw, for the control/power wire i ran it to my head unit, because when the head unit turns on, the amp will also turn on, and that is about it

also remember when buying speakers, dont go too cheap, keep the RMS atleast above 40 or so, because i broke my stock speakers because i ran too much power to them, they started cracking one day and it is gone

also always keep the RMS of the SUB or Speaker higher than the AMP, because also from experience i matched the subs with the amp (at exactly 150rms x 2 and it sounded ok, til i turned the gain up on the amp then my subs started fluttering like crazy: so if u get a 400 watt sub, get a amp that is like 350 or under, or if u do get the same RMS then dont turn the gain up

[slinker]

Thanks man, that helps alot. I think I got most of what I need to make my decisions.

[PaulD]

aznxthuggie ...... the port in a ported box does NOT "let air out" - it's the same air coming in and out. A bandpass is just a higher order ported box.