How does a GSX compare to an EVO

[nbw]

I think its safe to say that we can all agree thatfrom the factory the almighty EVO can spank the GSX everywich way and back again. So why bother ask? Becuase as allot of us here just dont have the funds to go out and purchase our dream cars. On paper the GSX 'seems' to be a rather logical choice to be a poor mans EVO.
So, how would a 1g/2g GSX with the same ammount of hp, same tires, shocks, brakes and bolt on type of goodies compare to the EVO? How close can one get to EVO performance(this btw does not meen just drag racing..) with a GSX before spending enough money where one could have just gone out and got an EVO?
Would it even be possible to make an.. well "eclipse evo" so to speak...

[TatII]

to get the GSX to have the exact same thing as the evo would cost almost as much as an evo itself. just putting in the brembo brakes, suspension, alumium conponents, ( hood, fender, suspension arms ) seats, larger turbo, larger intercooler, light weight enkei wheels, near indestructable transmission, and all of the sudden, the evo don't look so cheap, if you upgrade the suspension on the DSM, it still will not handle like a stock evo, nor will the parts hold up as long. the GSX is basically a old Galant VR-4 with a different body shell. and the Galant VR-4 got replaced by the EVO in rally, and that was over 12 years ago. the evo kept on evolving while the GSX stopped progressing since 92. ( chassis wise ) so the answer is obvious

[Joseph1082]

Don't these two cars share the same engine?
This kid I know had a Badass 1st gen DSM AWD... 20G turbo 500HP. Isn't a DSM much lighter than an Evo. I've just seen a lot more DSMs and seen what they are capable of, and I don't think you can discount them yet. Plus, I'd rather be driving one especially 2nd gen I mean looks wise... It looks more like a sports car that'll kick your ass. But I guess if you have money then it is really a matter of prefference, they are essentially the same thing AWD Mitsibishi.

[TatII]

Originally Posted by Joseph1082

Don't these two cars share the same engine?
This kid I know had a Badass 1st gen DSM AWD... 20G turbo 500HP. Isn't a DSM much lighter than an Evo. I've just seen a lot more DSMs and seen what they are capable of, and I don't think you can discount them yet. Plus, I'd rather be driving one especially 2nd gen I mean looks wise... It looks more like a sports car that'll kick your ass. But I guess if you have money then it is really a matter of prefference, they are essentially the same thing AWD Mitsibishi.

did you not read what i was saying in the other discussion? the engine even though same by name is totally different. nothing will fit. not even the headgasket. the engine on the DSM's are the outdated EVO's from 1-3. but from 4 on to 8 it usually a completely different engine. the DSM's 4G63 is a dinosaur compared to the modern 4G63's. you know how a DSM 4G63 looks, take a look at a EVO engine and you notice that its facing the wrong way.

EVO: transmission is on the driver's side

DSM: transmission is on the passenger side

EVO: Cam sprockets are on passenger side

DSM: Cam sprockets are on driver's side

just take a look at the two. you will see that its not the same engine. you saying that those 2 engine are the same is like saying all SR20DET's are the same, but they are sooo different from one another as well.

example:
SR20DET from a pulsar GTi-R. FWD, have 4 throttle bodies, and turbo

SR20DET from a S13 chassis car, RWD, single throttle body with a smooth valve cover finish

SR20DET from S14-S15: engine now have variable valve timing motor on exhuast cam side of the motor, the valve cover now have a large hump from cylinder #1-3. the intake manifold plenum is also a different design.

you see they all have the same name, but those motors are incredibaly different. please don't compare a stock EVO-to a stock DSM. or even a MODDED DSM to a MODDED EVO. the EVO is light years ahead in every way.

also about the drive train, you once again think that they are the same. the EVO's drive train is soo much more stronger, i have yet heard of a single EVO break its tranny. i know the car is new, but no one really complained about them even in japan or new zealand, and britain. meanwhile the DSM's trannys are built like crap. even the GS-T's have tranny problems. that is why my friend sold his. the only thing htat comes close to an evo in durablilty is the 1st gen DSM becusae they were exactly the same thing as the Galant VR-4 but with a different body shell. but even that was obsolete. if Mitsubishi desided to keep racing with the Galant Chassis, then Subaru would've moped the floor with their ass, and Mitsubishi wouldn't have won 4 rally champion ships in a row. the DSM chassis was just gettin too outdated to stay competitive. in stock form, did the GSX or Talon TSi even compare to a Porsche? or a Skyline? or a NSX? even compared to a Z32 300ZX TT? if you compare a DSM to those in handling, and braking, and the overall package it would be a joke. yet the EVO can smoke half o those cars, and can keep up with the rest.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by TatII

to get the GSX to have the exact same thing as the evo would cost almost as much as an evo itself. just putting in the brembo brakes, suspension, alumium conponents, ( hood, fender, suspension arms ) seats, larger turbo, larger intercooler, light weight enkei wheels, near indestructable transmission, and all of the sudden, the evo don't look so cheap, if you upgrade the suspension on the DSM, it still will not handle like a stock evo, nor will the parts hold up as long. the GSX is basically a old Galant VR-4 with a different body shell. and the Galant VR-4 got replaced by the EVO in rally, and that was over 12 years ago. the evo kept on evolving while the GSX stopped progressing since 92. ( chassis wise ) so the answer is obvious

while stock for stock i fully agree that an EVO is by far a better machine i disagree with you on the tuning potential.

true the 4g63 in the evo is more modern but the 4g63 found in firts gen DSM is also capable of huge power gains, just look at what buschur can do with those babies

second you can take a 6 bolt 1st gen 4g63 drop it in a second gen which i belive has a double wishbone suspension setup so in way you have even a better starting point than in an evo with is strut/multilink combo

you gen some coilovers from Ohlin, penske, moton(if you can afford them) of if not get some jic and get them tuned at road race engineering or some other top notch suspension tuning shop

the evo will have a much stiffer chassis than a DSM so you get some reinforcements or even a roll cage if you want

the replacement brakes don't have to be brembo, you could get an awesome braking kit from baer for example

and for diffs swap the front and center with a torsen form quaife

the end result should destroy an evo in theory

so lets price it

2nd gen GSX 8k(maybe cheaper if you can find one with a blown engine)
1st gen swap + upgrades 5k
suspension 4k(for really good stuff)
chassis reinforcement 2k
baer full kit (FR, pbr2 piston, 13-14 in rotors, brake distribution) 3K
2 quaife diffs 2k
wheels + tires 1.2K

result ~25.2K for something that should at least in theory beat an evo

[nbw]

id go with the old school dsm w/ popup headlights since I am REAL poor. lol

what would you say the difference is between the drivetrains in the DSM's and evo? I remember reading something about it being a big difference but I cant remember how...

ty

[TatII]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

while stock for stock i fully agree that an EVO is by far a better machine i disagree with you on the tuning potential.

true the 4g63 in the evo is more modern but the 4g63 found in firts gen DSM is also capable of huge power gains, just look at what buschur can do with those babies

second you can take a 6 bolt 1st gen 4g63 drop it in a second gen which i belive has a double wishbone suspension setup so in way you have even a better starting point than in an evo with is strut/multilink combo

you gen some coilovers from Ohlin, penske, moton(if you can afford them) of if not get some jic and get them tuned at road race engineering or some other top notch suspension tuning shop

the evo will have a much stiffer chassis than a DSM so you get some reinforcements or even a roll cage if you want

the replacement brakes don't have to be brembo, you could get an awesome braking kit from baer for example

and for diffs swap the front and center with a torsen form quaife

the end result should destroy an evo in theory

so lets price it

2nd gen GSX 8k(maybe cheaper if you can find one with a blown engine)
1st gen swap + upgrades 5k
suspension 4k(for really good stuff)
chassis reinforcement 2k
baer full kit (FR, pbr2 piston, 13-14 in rotors, brake distribution) 3K
2 quaife diffs 2k
wheels + tires 1.2K

result ~25.2K for something that should at least in theory beat an evo

i knew you were goin to bring up the double wishbone in the DSM vs. the strut and multi link setup in the EVO. true a short arm long arm is suppose to be better. BUT there are a few exceptions here. almost all the modern Porsches use struts up front, and they handle beautifully ( even though critics say that it handles too much like its on rails and lack the fun to drive factor ) and all the new honda's switched over from SLA to struts too. including the new type R's. and the new type R's are still faster, even though its not as fun to drive. also the S chassis for the nissan line up all had Struts up front. they are all very capable cars. i'm not saying that struts are better then SLA. but these examples shows that they can be made to handle quit well. also yes with all that put into the car it would be better then the EVO. but as we all know a used car will have soo much problems. like my car, i have problems with the cooling system, problems with my sunroof, problems with my A/C, problems with my vent motor, and i have bad grounds so i always get shocked by my own car. now for me to fix all that just for parts alone would cost lots of money. while the EVO would be a NEW car with warrantee. and we all know how crappy mitsu's are built. we usually call them MITSUSHITYS with the exception for the evo. sure the first GEN DSM's drivetrain are bulletproof. however can you say that about the rest of the car? i think not.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by TatII

i knew you were goin to bring up the double wishbone in the DSM vs. the strut and multi link setup in the EVO. true a short arm long arm is suppose to be better. BUT there are a few exceptions here. almost all the modern Porsches use struts up front, and they handle beautifully ( even though critics say that it handles too much like its on rails and lack the fun to drive factor ) and all the new honda's switched over from SLA to struts too. including the new type R's. and the new type R's are still faster, even though its not as fun to drive. also the S chassis for the nissan line up all had Struts up front. they are all very capable cars. i'm not saying that struts are better then SLA. but these examples shows that they can be made to handle quit well. also yes with all that put into the car it would be better then the EVO. but as we all know a used car will have soo much problems. like my car, i have problems with the cooling system, problems with my sunroof, problems with my A/C, problems with my vent motor, and i have bad grounds so i always get shocked by my own car. now for me to fix all that just for parts alone would cost lots of money. while the EVO would be a NEW car with warrantee. and we all know how crappy mitsu's are built. we usually call them MITSUSHITYS with the exception for the evo. sure the first GEN DSM's drivetrain are bulletproof. however can you say that about the rest of the car? i think not.

You should try preaching Catolicism To the Pope too


I guess you don't remember most of my posts were i was defending Macpherson/Multilink setups. Yes I fully agree that those setups can be made to handle very well and porsche proves that very well. Still in theory the double A arm is superior. I just brought this up to point out that IMO second gen GSX can be goob platforms for modding.

And I agree with you how much of a PITA extensivelly modded cars can be. I had planed to put well over 15K in my cougar for mods - very carefully planned - (similar to what i posted for the GSX) but when I realise how much time and effort (which i don't have right now) that would take.

What scared me the most was the engine. my planes required complete rebuild(and i mean complete top and bottom), heavy turbocharging, and of course lots and lots of tuning done on a Stand alone. took me at least 2 years of research to come up with all the parts. But will all that planning it takes only one mistake in timing or AF ratio, or even a bad batch of gas to blow up everything. So for now the project is on stand by.

I have planned as soon as i finish everything with school to get something along the lines of an Evo/srt4/350Z dependion on where i will live and finances. A car in warrantee is a blessing.

[crayzayjay]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

I have planned as soon as i finish everything with school to get something along the lines of an Evo/srt4/350Z dependion on where i will live and finances. A car in warrantee is a blessing.

You're making a good choice there. Go for something RWD

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by crayzayjay

You're making a good choice there. Go for something RWD

Yes i would love a RWD car. But I will get one only if I buy another car for winter or I will live in a place with no snow.


I really like the 350Z despite Clarkson pure hate of them. And i'm probably gonna go with a base model and set it up properly. From a performance standpoit the stock setting are horible.

It needs more brake pedal movement before lock for brake modulation(i don't know about the brembo on the top models though). The camber and toe settings must be changed asap. The tires must be more matched for neutral handling as recently discovered by SCC. And the stock viscous differential will give up to easily when pushed and I'm not the biggest fan of the clutch pack type diff sold by nismo. What I want is a Torsen diff hopefully someone makes one by now.

So i guess may that is why Clarkson has issues with it. Maybe after I'm done with it i should send it to top gear to see if he still hates it.

[crayzayjay]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

So i guess may that is why Clarkson has issues with it. Maybe after I'm done with it i should send it to top gear to see if he still hates it.

Screw Clarkson. I'm a better driver than him anyway. Send it to me and i'll gladly tell you what i think of it