455...What year would be best?

[burnM]

I have a 1979 Camaro(avatar) that has an unusual engine/tranny combo in it.

It has a 350 Olds engine in it now from 1978. It only has a hp rating of 160 on a good day. What would be the best way to build this engine?

The other choice is to put a 455 in it because the only external difference between the two is deck height and top width. This would mean that I would not have to change the motor mount position, or the transmission.

The question on the latter being what year 455 would be the best for hp/torque and/or availability of parts(performance or otherwise)

The third option I am playing with is: I have an old 502 from a late '60's Caddy. Will I have to move or change the motor mounts/tranny to make it fit? If I don't have to change anything it would be a bonus because I already have the engine. Not to mention that it would turn the car into a torque pig monster!

Any input is appreciated....
Thanks

[Musclecarclub]

For the Olds 455, 1970 was the best year. Sure, they built a few in '68 and '69, but they were Hurst/Olds engines and will be extremely expensive. After 1970, compression ratio and horsepower dropped quite a bit. So depending on $, I would go with 1970, then maybe 71 and then 72. After 72, the power output is much lower and may not be worth the engine swap.

[MagicRat]

I am not sure about a 502. The big Caddy engine will bolt up to the transmission, but engine mounts would have to be fabricated and some measuring would be required just to make sure it would fit.
There are very few Caddy performance parts available, and in the stock form, they are no more powerful than a decent stock 400 Pontiac.

The Olds 455 is a good choice, although it is a bit of a compromise. A BB Chevy can be made to go faster but, of course, costs more to buy and build. The Olds is a great way to produce lots of big block power and torque for modest money.
All the Olds 455 blocks are much the same, although the 71-76 engines were thought to have slightly lighter and weaker castings. Use the 68-70 heads, (cast with a big B or C in the top.) '71 and later heads were not so good, with lower compression and thinner castings.
The 455 has only two modest weaknesses. They are slightly undersquare (4.125 x 4.250) so the ports and valves are slightly smaller than, say a decent Pontiac 400. So you must build them to produce maximum mid range power. They will not do too much above 5000 rpm with stock heads.
The other problem is that, while you can find all common performance parts for them, they are relatively uncommon. Its tough to find swap meet parts, so the good stuff will require a bit of hunting or you'll have to buy new. Edelbrock just come out with some great aluminum heads, although Mondello is the best place for everything Oldsmobile.
I have a built Olds 455 and it doesn't build revs as fast as a sb Chev, but it produces more power and torque than any sb for the money I spent on it.

[burnM]

Thanks for the responses guys.

That's alot of info... I'll check into all of it. It'll keep me thinking for a while

[macktoschool]

I actually put a 1970 455 in an 81' Pontiac Bonneville (OEM Diesel Car).MagicRat is right, they aren't a high rev motor, but they make 500 ft/lb of torque at 2800 RPM stock out of the box, so who needs to wind it? The 2 ton Bonneville with headers and a 3:55 posi ran 14.30's so it would move your little camaro along real nice. I did install oil restrictors in the mains during the rebuild per a Mondello tech article on this engine. They actually put one in a 28 ft motorhome, and would leave rubber for several feet. Thought I would pass that along.

[Drop Top]

I would not recommend Mondello for a parts source. All 455 blocks are pretty much the same strength from 68-72. Stay away from any windowed main blocks like the 1978 Vintage 350. Don't forget about the 425. It can rev quicker than a 455 and make just as much power. If you go with a 455 be sure to find a Nodular or Forged Crank. They are in the earlier years. Later years have a cast crank. Heads are direct swap from 455 and 425. Any head casting from F,C,K,H,D is ok. There are also other alumninum heads besides Edelbrocks out now.

[macktoschool]

I have used Mondello several times, and their parts were always top notch, plus they were a big help with any tech questions I had. I admit it's been a few years since I did any business with them, but unless things have changed dramatically, I would certainly recommend using their stuff. Everything else you said was right on the money though. Nice to see there are other's who like the BB Olds Thumpers.

[BadBird67]

Hey, I just thought I would pass this along. There ARE parts and options for Caddy blocks!! Caddy motors are starting to be looked at more and more for some serious power, and not so much that....but torque, boatloads of torque. Also, what is nice about Caddy engines is that even though they are big blocks, they had a high nickel content, thus keeping weight down. Don't get me wrong....they're still a huge big block, but lighter than most others...454's and 455's included. We went with a 500 Caddy for a 71 Chevelle we built back in high school. Anyway, if you're interested in a Cadillac engine, check out the site below, they even specialize in custom motor mounts, and they KNOW what they're doing. Good luck to you, whatever you decide on!!

http://www.cad500parts.com/

[Ratieya455]

Hey, I'm new here and this is my first post. I'm 17 but I despise rice rockets and wish I had more chances to whoop them in my 1970 Oldsmobile Toronado. It has the stock 455 Rocket with 138,126 miles and it runs very well. The front wheel drive gives great traction and great burnouts and the dual exhaust with some kind of useless little mufflers can drown out a 1000 watt stereo system. This is the only vehicle like this I have ever driven and wonder what the 455 would be like in a Camaro that is roughly 1,000lb lighter than my huge fastback and has RWD and a 4speed. I say put that rascal in there!

[rawsketch]

Originally Posted by macktoschool

I actually put a 1970 455 in an 81' Pontiac Bonneville (OEM Diesel Car).MagicRat is right, they aren't a high rev motor, but they make 500 ft/lb of torque at 2800 RPM stock out of the box, so who needs to wind it? The 2 ton Bonneville with headers and a 3:55 posi ran 14.30's so it would move your little camaro along real nice. I did install oil restrictors in the mains during the rebuild per a Mondello tech article on this engine. They actually put one in a 28 ft motorhome, and would leave rubber for several feet. Thought I would pass that along.

I just stumbled accross this thread about Olds 455s and saw that you had a '81 Bonneville with a 455 in it. I'm doing the same thing and was wondering what kind of mods you did to the motor beside headers. 14.30 is a pretty good time for such a boat, I'm hoping that with my mods I could do even better. Come check it out!!

http://www.cardomain.com/id/blueville

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by rawsketch

I just stumbled accross this thread about Olds 455s and saw that you had a '81 Bonneville with a 455 in it. I'm doing the same thing and was wondering what kind of mods you did to the motor beside headers. 14.30 is a pretty good time for such a boat, I'm hoping that with my mods I could do even better. Come check it out!!

http://www.cardomain.com/id/blueville

Thats a nice car! Your work looks really good.
My 455 is in an '81 Fleetwood, which, deep down is the same as your car, except the wheelbase is longer. My Cad came with a THM 400, already. I had it rebuilt with a shift kit so it shifts nice and firm. The 455 is from a '68 Toronado, and it bolted right up to the trans with no problem, and I used the original trans mount in the stock location. . I used the Toro engine mounts. When the engine was installed the Toro mounts were perfectly positioned on the frame cross member, so I welded them in place.
I used Hooker headers for a 455. They only make one size of 455 header and it fitted in well. One tube needed to be heated and hammered a bit to clear the steering column, but that was no big deal.
I rebuilt the engine myself, bored .060 over, with a reasonable Crane cam, bronze valve guides, an Offenhauser 360 (aluminum dual plane) manifold, a Holley 750 vaccuum secondary carb.
I used the stock 455 heads, (C code heads which are a good high compression design)
The problem I have is the rear end. Its really strong, but is a unique Cadillac design, with tall 2:55 to one gears. The stock converter is tight so its a bit sluggish up to 30 mph then it takes off. The top end is great. Shortly after I built is I had a top speed run in Montana. 130 mph with lots of revs and gas pedal left to go.
A looser converter and proper gears are essential, as you state in your site.

[Brutus_5150]

70 is a good year for 455's but don't the 390 horse 98/toronado 455 motors from 1968-69.

[intimidtr3]

I have 2 455's for sale in Ks if anyone is interested.Both run great and come with or without trans.$350 each.One 73 and one 76.

[mike88]

Originally Posted by macktoschool

I actually put a 1970 455 in an 81' Pontiac Bonneville (OEM Diesel Car).MagicRat is right, they aren't a high rev motor, but they make 500 ft/lb of torque at 2800 RPM stock out of the box, so who needs to wind it? The 2 ton Bonneville with headers and a 3:55 posi ran 14.30's so it would move your little camaro along real nice. I did install oil restrictors in the mains during the rebuild per a Mondello tech article on this engine. They actually put one in a 28 ft motorhome, and would leave rubber for several feet. Thought I would pass that along.

Mack, what brand and part # are headers?

[wedgemotor]

I believe that 70 Tornado engine made more horsepower than the W-30 455's. I would definately hang on to it.