My friend wins a class of Horsepower Heros at Summernats

[Spunkymonkey]

AJC-13B wins Horsepower Hero's !!
He has taken out his class with 433.4 rwhp in his series 3 RX7

[Setanta]

433 RW HP

*sigh*

[Spunkymonkey]

Originally posted by Setanta
433 RW HP

*sigh*

Yes I know....

I need to improve my 170hp

[Setanta]

170 at the wheels? That's pretty damn respectable

I get about 125 I think - I'm not sure on drivetrain and ancillery loss and haven't had the time to get it onto a dyno. The B16A is rated at 160 ps (approx 158 bhp) - anyone know the loss to the wheels figure?

[Spunkymonkey]

Originally posted by Setanta
170 at the wheels? That's pretty damn respectable

I get about 125 I think - I'm not sure on drivetrain and ancillery loss and haven't had the time to get it onto a dyno. The B16A is rated at 160 ps (approx 158 bhp) - anyone know the loss to the wheels figure?

Im' talking stock VTIR..... Haven't done any real performance mods yet. But soon perhaps....

Got any suggestions....

Some people have suggested I get aftermarket cams, and ECU. Already had Vtec controller when I got the car.

[Setanta]

Bang for buck? Turbocharge it. For the price of IHE and cams plus heavy duty springs, headwork, higher comp pistons etc you could have a fully up and running turbo system making more power. I'm a big fan of NA engines - but the money to get decent improvements (not paper improvements, real world ones) isn't worth it. Only hassle would be compression ratio I think, but with a decent intercooler you should be able to run 10lbs boost.

That's why I'm looking at playing with a project car - I can't bring myself to turbo the SiR and mods that don't take away from its factory look just aren't worth it.

[Spunkymonkey]

Originally posted by Setanta
Bang for buck? Turbocharge it. For the price of IHE and cams plus heavy duty springs, headwork, higher comp pistons etc you could have a fully up and running turbo system making more power. I'm a big fan of NA engines - but the money to get decent improvements (not paper improvements, real world ones) isn't worth it. Only hassle would be compression ratio I think, but with a decent intercooler you should be able to run 10lbs boost.

That's why I'm looking at playing with a project car - I can't bring myself to turbo the SiR and mods that don't take away from its factory look just aren't worth it.

How much do you think for a decent set up? I've emailed Jim at Croydon Auto sports (they've just started developing a website) for ideas. Only thing is...you know insurance...yada yada..I'd have to be very careful if I did turbo it.


I do want it to go a bit better though....since its going to have the looks, it might as well have better performance to match

[Setanta]

Any mods are going to hike your insurance if you play honest with the company that is Hell - I copped it for having mags on a 1G many years ago. TC will up your insurance for sure though.

A good setup will be in the $5000 range I'm guessing. That should include plumbing, turbo, intercooler, extra injector (maybe) and assorted odds and sods. Labour? Who knows? It may even be more than that. Last time I did it though I did all the work myself dropping a Rayjay turbo drawing through a solex carb with 14lbs boost on a 1335 EB1/EN1 engine in a 1G so I'm no expert on current costs. It was crude but damn it worked!!!

[Spunkymonkey]

Originally posted by Setanta
Any mods are going to hike your insurance if you play honest with the company that is Hell - I copped it for having mags on a 1G many years ago. TC will up your insurance for sure though.

A good setup will be in the $5000 range I'm guessing. That should include plumbing, turbo, intercooler, extra injector (maybe) and assorted odds and sods. Labour? Who knows? It may even be more than that. Last time I did it though I did all the work myself dropping a Rayjay turbo drawing through a solex carb with 14lbs boost on a 1335 EB1/EN1 engine in a 1G so I'm no expert on current costs. It was crude but damn it worked!!!

I'm already not honest on my insurance Do you think supercharging is any good? I'm not really prepared to spend that much on the car at this stage...have the new mortgage on the unit remember :silly2:

Any other things I can do temp to up the performance, without going the full way. Car needs a service soon. About to hit 100k, so I'll get the timing belt changed, and all the regular sparks, oil, etc.

Do you think there is much improvement to be had from changing ECU.

Actually car runs a lot smoother now because of the new CAI. Woohoo! VTEC

[Spunkymonkey]

Here's more info on the stats for his win:


Okay guys, here are my 2 dyno sheets. First is my qualifying run of 427.2hp. This run was made on 18psi +/-.

*Large pictures. 200k+*

http://www.ajc13b.com/427.jpg

This is my run from the finals. This run was on a shade under 23psi.

http://www.ajc13b.com/433.jpg

On the 427 sheet, you can see the HP drop off at the peak. This is because I had my hand on the boost dial and saw the boost get to around 20psi and dropped it back to be safe. With the 433 run, I held the dial in position instead of winding it back and the power didn't drop off.

[jOYRiDe]

croydon have an website? wots the email addy??? thanks!

[Setanta]

Originally posted by Spunkymonkey


I'm already not honest on my insurance Do you think supercharging is any good? I'm not really prepared to spend that much on the car at this stage...have the new mortgage on the unit remember :silly2:

Any other things I can do temp to up the performance, without going the full way. Car needs a service soon. About to hit 100k, so I'll get the timing belt changed, and all the regular sparks, oil, etc.

Do you think there is much improvement to be had from changing ECU.

Actually car runs a lot smoother now because of the new CAI. Woohoo! VTEC

If you are going to hold back on money for the moment I'd recommend not doing too much to the mechanicals and concentrate on looks and sound. For approx 1500 bucks you could do extractors/adjustable cam wheels fitted and then spend another 800 on a properly bent exhaust with free flow cat convertor and muffler. That will give you some HP increase - possibly 10KW. Don't change your ECU unless you go all out on Cams, compression etc. Honda got it very right and it really isn't worth it. The one thing to remember is that real increases only come as a package - not as a one part bolt on.

If you upgrade cams at the same time, then you need to do valve springs as well. To get the very best you'd also need to get the head worked and go better pistons.

Personally - I'd say leave it as stands and save and turbo it. The power path is a lot easier to get more from it that way.

Example with the 1Gs I've built: Using an EB3 (Series 3 1G SBC) block and EN1 (Series 1 2G) crank, rods and flywheel

Engine 1: Using the base 1335cc config I added goldwing 73mm pistons to take it out to 1400cc. Ported RS1200 head taken to Mugen R1 specs with bigger valves. Compression ratio was 10.5:1. Flywheel lightened and balanced, crank lightened. Mugen head gasket, Jackson Racing 4-1 fully tuned bassini headers. 1 3/4 inch exhaust and free flow muffler (plus hot dog muffler to reduce noise). EN1 electronic ignition, twin 35mm Dell Orto carbs (4 pot sidedraft) choked to 32mm. Yoshi high lift cams (alternalted with Mugen R1 spec cams).

Ok - in standard trim, the 1200cc 1G makes 55bhp and the 1200RS makes 70 bhp, both at the flywheel. I dynoed my car and got 78bhp at the front wheels. Changed the JR Bassini headers off (it was making all it's power @ 7000rpm) and put on a set of RS1200 4-2-1s and got 75 @ 6300rpm. Changed the yoshi cam for a Mugen R1 and got a little less power but more torque low down (the R1 is the most streetable of the 3 mugen spec cams).

Compared to that: the huge Rayjay turbo motor which was only a 1335, decompressed using EB2 pistons (these are concave as opposed to the EB3/EN1 domed pistons - therefore reducing compression), water/methonol cooling (sucked through the 45mm Solex carby), EN1 electronic ignition, all with 14lbs boost gave me 98bhp at the front wheels. It also caused me to crash the car - overboosted and detonated after 6 months of hard driving

But bang for buck, I spent 2000 bucks more on a NA setup. Today things have progressed - It's why I'd use the city turbo setup taken out in size and adding a better intercooler (front mounted) and bigger turbo, additional injector etc. My early turbo setup had no EFI so no fuel control and no intercooler - a must with turbocharging.

What did the turbo have that the NA setup didn't? Low down torque (admittedly 4000rpm was low down as there was huge turbo lag under that )

Anyway - will stop rambling now - it was just an example of how NA setups will blow out in cost and still not get you the power of turbocharging. Face it when you get more power, all you want is more and more

[Setanta]

[shorter post] Oh - and I tried a CAI off an VTiR civic on my SiR and gained nothing would you believe? Admittedly I played with the piping to make it fit, but the std SiR airbox with reusable performance filter did the job as well as a CAI [/shorter post]

[Oz]

Summary of SC VS TC - Oz's opinions

Supercharging is completely lag free but requires more boost to achieve the same power (eg. 7lbs boost on a SC is the same as 5.5lbs boost on a TC). It has less scope for adjustment of boost and becomes inefficient over about 12lbs because of the sizes of the pulleys needed to run more boost than that.

Turbocharging is better bang for buck, with less boost (see sc) for same results, is more adjustable but has turbo-lag while the turbine spins up. It requires more regular servicing and more frequent oil changes because oil is use dto lubricate the bearings.

More SC comes in pre made kits so are more reliable, tested and so forth. Most turbos are custom setups, but you can often save money on second hand parts that don't readily wear out (eg. intercollas).

My preference is SC for moderate gains in a daily driven vehicle. Turbo for the weekend warrior who makes his way to work a different way and for any kind of racing.

Setanta - driveline losses for front wheel drives (particularly Hondas) are approx 22%.

[Setanta]

Thx - I did well with both the NA and forced engines then.