2.36 Million Million Dollars!!

[YogsVR4]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ress_budget_dc

Spending is at an all time high and there are still people crying that its not enough or that programs are being cut to give 'tax cuts' to the rich. I'd like someone - anyone to show where education, health car and every other social program has been cut.

It hasn't spending went up on everything. Those bastards in congress cannot keep their hands out of my wallet. I've said a thousand times I am not against taxation but 2.3 TRILLION! a year! and its not enough?! Holy unbelievable. There are only two other countries in the world with a GDP as big as this budget.

Don't even get me started on state and local taxes. Anyone who crys about people not paying their fair share, ask yourself, how much of that 2.3 trillion did you put in? Quit asking for more.

[2strokebloke]

Too much overspending. Does the Pentagon really need over 300 billion every year? We need not higher taxes, just wiser spending within the government.

[jon@af]

Yet another reason for me to move...to another country...

[IntegraBoy2003]

Originally Posted by J_Swigz

Yet another reason for me to move...to another country...

i hear that, man

[eversio11]

2.3 trillion dollars and we can't afford free healthcare for children?

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by eversio11

2.3 trillion dollars and we can't afford free healthcare for children?

Nothing is 'Free'.

[eversio11]

Countless other countries have a smaller GDP and offer (practically) free health care to all citizens. And we have to sit by as we pump money into the war (I'm not anti-war, just this one) while kids are living in poverty not getting proper medical care.

[DGB454]

The so called free health care isn't totally free. Look at the countries who have it. Extremely long waiting periods to see a doctor. Health care is mediocre(sp?)at best. The good doctors from those countries are comming to America to make real money.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by DGB454

The so called free health care isn't totally free. Look at the countries who have it. Extremely long waiting periods to see a doctor. Health care is mediocre(sp?)at best. The good doctors from those countries are comming to America to make real money.

It would pay to remember that since the concept of state-funded healthcare was first trialled,the number of illnesses and accidents that have become treatable has increased dramatically.I don't imagine that many of these advances have come from private health insurers,but those of us who contribute towards state-funded healthcare have had to shoulder the enormous costs of these extra treatments just as much as those who pay their own insurance directly to the health industry.

I'd be interested to know what experience you base these comments on.Having chosen to use this country's state-run medical services frequently in the past 15 years,I can honestly tell you that I have no complaints about the standard of healthcare or the competence of the system.I'd go so far as to say that it still far better than the British equivalent,even though it was badly beaten up by the last monetarist government that this country foolishly elected.

As to the doctors..there will always be people who chase the dollar,and there will always be those whose ethics come first.There's no shortagfe of excellent overseas medical staff [including Americans] who have stepped up to the mark in New Zealand's hospitals alongside the thousands of dedicated Kiwis who choose to stay put.

[carrrnuttt]

And you say you're worried about Kerry spending your money in the other thread.

Bush's request, according to your link, was for 2.4 trillion. I guess he got most of his request.

[carrrnuttt]

Read more about it here: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

[YogsVR4]

There is way to damn much spending. I've said that before in the other thread as well. The damn socialists and democrats are already crying that its not enough and that there were cuts in social programs (I like how they claim that 4% growth instead of the 10% they wanted is a spending cut).

I'd rather have a fiscal conservative in office. Find one thats going to be on the ballot and they'd have my vote. You won't find one that isn't a hack which is a damn shame. After that I want someone who might address social security and immigration. Kerry wont touch the first and doesn't even talk about the second.

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by taranaki

It would pay to remember that since the concept of state-funded healthcare was first trialled,the number of illnesses and accidents that have become treatable has increased dramatically.I don't imagine that many of these advances have come from private health insurers,but those of us who contribute towards state-funded healthcare have had to shoulder the enormous costs of these extra treatments just as much as those who pay their own insurance directly to the health industry.

I'd be interested to know what experience you base these comments on.Having chosen to use this country's state-run medical services frequently in the past 15 years,I can honestly tell you that I have no complaints about the standard of healthcare or the competence of the system.I'd go so far as to say that it still far better than the British equivalent,even though it was badly beaten up by the last monetarist government that this country foolishly elected.

As to the doctors..there will always be people who chase the dollar,and there will always be those whose ethics come first.There's no shortagfe of excellent overseas medical staff [including Americans] who have stepped up to the mark in New Zealand's hospitals alongside the thousands of dedicated Kiwis who choose to stay put.

Well Taranaki usually I look into things that people state on here before I make a response to them to prove them wrong or to prove myself right. This has been no exception. But...for the first time that I can remember I have begun to think I may go the other way on this one.
I did about an hour of research on universal health care through the net and looked at both sides of the debate. It seems that most of the problems that I have been hearing about with universal healthcare are problems in what are considered "3rd world countries" It seems that the countries that are somewhat better off do a pretty decent job of managing their health care system. It also seems that the old belief that competition keeps cost down doesn't fit the health care industry.
Also I found out that on the last poll at least 57% of all US doctors would like to see a universal health care system. That was a shocker. Mostly because I see doctors as somewhat greedy.
It's actually the insurance companies and the pharmacutical companies that are pushing the hardest against the universal health care initiatives in this country. (I already knew these guys were crooked)

Anyway...You get a kudo for this one.
Yeah...I know.....I was suprised that you were right too.... (j/k)

[justacruiser]

Universal health care. I would LOVE for it to be around right now in the US, but there are two ENORMOUS problems that we have with that at the moment that need to be addressed. One thing will be solved over time, the other won't.

1. The baby-boomers are aging. Within the next 20 years all the baby-boomers will most likely retire and the US would have a huge number of people who need treatment as they age, yet a workforce that is much smaller than the number of those people. This is the one that would solve itself out over time since, obviously, older people won't be around forever. (I know that sounded heartless but I'm being pragmatic in this little scenario, I don't think this way normally).

2. The immigrant problem. Taranaki, you live on an Island. Canada has the frozen north, the oceans and us, who buffer them from the south americas. Britain, is an island. Now you tell me, if we have universal healthcare, where everybody gets treated, how many people are going to hobble/stumble/be carried across our border to be treated for free? At me and every Americans expense? A lot more than there are now. Don't tell me that the libbies in congress will pass a law where it's only citizens treated, there are too many 'immigrants' right now who are against that. Plus, all the other countries of the world would think the US is a bunch of soulless bastards if they saw people being turned away at the border who had cancer or something.

In short, universal healthcare would be a great thing in one way, but here in the US i'm 90% positive it would turn into another endless money pit like the Welfare state.

[DGB454]

Another good point. Maybe everyone who gets treated would need to show a universal health care ID offered free to citizens only. It would be touchy at first but eventually the illegals would get the message that their gov't. needed to take care of them and not someone elses. Of course liberals along with the rest of the world would complain about it at first but they already do complain about everything.