Replaced Fuel Rail, Now Car Won't Start!!! Any Advice

[kidd94]

Ok this past Saturday was gorgeous. I called my local GM Dealer to find out what the cost and availability was on a new Fuel Rail. They gave it to me for $152.00 (They matched the Internet Price). Got it home and had my father in law with me so for an extra set of hands and eyes.

The replacement was pretty much cut and dry. Removed the Air Housing and throttle body assembly. Unplug the wiring harness going into each injector. Move spark plug wires out of the way and some vaccum hoses and the reverse the procedure. However, after installing the new Rail and putting everything back in place the car will not start now...

We checked everything. We did get it to run 2 times 30 seconds the first time and about 45 the second time. Now it won't start at all and sounds as if it is not getting fuel. Car just turns over. I want to think that there is a problem w/ spark getting to the injectors, however, it did Run, twice. We spent all day saturdya trying to figure out how to get this car to run. Nothing worked. Priming it, starting with the pedal to the floor. Nothing.

Any Ideas.

[Bill V]

Check the fuel pressure regulator "o" rings. I'll bet the small one is missing or twisted...

[kidd94]

Originally Posted by Bill V

Check the fuel pressure regulator "o" rings. I'll bet the small one is missing or twisted...

I had an experienced mechanic come over last night and take a look at it. This is what we checked.

1) Made sure that all wiring harnesses are plugged in and tight.
2) Checked the FPR assembly OK.
3) Checked to make sure that voltage is going to all 8 injectors OK.
4) Checked to see if Pressure is going through the FUEL Rail.
5) Checked to make sure spark is going through the spark plugs.
6) Tried to start car with each individual sensor unplugged to see if we could get it to fire up nothing.

Car is not flooded. Fuel is going through the rail. Injectors have spark. Plugs and wires have spark.

We checked everything we could without putting the car on a scanner. We also can't check the pressure going through the fuel rail.

As of right now the car sounds as if it is being starved of gas. Period. Not even a hint of a start is going on. There is a half of tank of Gas. Right now after last night we are leaning towards a possible bad fuel pump. We have a local mechanic who I believe can run it through a scanner and test the car against a flow chart for a "no start" condition.

However, the car ran perfectly fine prior to putting in the fuel rail in. I have seen other parts go bad at the same time, but this is really wierd. If anyone has any clue please chime in. Every option will be considered.

[Indy8]

Run down and buy a can of starting fluid spray, pull intake hose away from the airbox and spray into the hose for three seconds. Have someone immediately try to start it while you stand-by with a good fire extinguisher. If it starts and then stalls after burning off the fluid, then you know you have spark and your problem is fuel delivery. No start, no spark. Then you know it's ignition related.

[tjm]

any chance that the supply and return lines could be swapped or is it a "one way only" installation

[kidd94]

Originally Posted by Indy8

Run down and buy a can of starting fluid spray, pull intake hose away from the airbox and spray into the hose for three seconds. Have someone immediately try to start it while you stand-by with a good fire extinguisher. If it starts and then stalls after burning off the fluid, then you know you have spark and your problem is fuel delivery. No start, no spark. Then you know it's ignition related.

We tried that. Then when the engine didn't fire up, we pulled a spark plug and re-attached it to the plug wire and grounded it. Tried starting the engine and the plug was sparkin'. Spark is getting to the plugs.

Originally Posted by tjm

any chance that the supply and return lines could be swapped or is it a "one way only" installation

It's a one way install on the fuel rail...

It's going to our mechanic tomorrow. I am going to have them put it on a scanner and have them follow a no start flow chart and maybe they can narrow it down.

[Indy8]

Compressed air+highly flammable starting fluid+spark=explosion. I have never seen starting fluid fail to fire with a spark igniting it. Good luck at the shop. Let us know what happens.

[kidd94]

Originally Posted by Indy8

Compressed air+highly flammable starting fluid+spark=explosion. I have never seen starting fluid fail to fire with a spark igniting it. Good luck at the shop. Let us know what happens.

Exactly what we thought too. My friend and I stood there dumbfounded as to why the car was not starting. Don't forget, we did get the car to run twice after replacing the fuel rail for about 30 to 40 seconds each time. When it ran both of those times I am guessing that it was running off of the fuel that was already in the injectors and basically ran out of gas. We then primed it several time to build up pressure, and again nothing.

Could there have been something done to the fuel pump from removing the fuel rail? Right now I am thinking a fuel pump. But then again, you would think, as you stated Indy8, that we should get spark from the starter fluid. However, the plugs that we checked are getting spark.

How about a FPR. Is there a way that you can tell if it is bad?

I'm afraid the shop is going to look at us go your screwed....

[tjm]

fuel fump fuse/curcuit breaker/relay? - when you run out of the obvious it time to look at the less..

My FPR was drawing fuel through the vacuum line.

I had the trany done on my 66 t-bird (15 yrs ago) and the shop called to ask me the trick to starting the car. I told them there was no trick and went down to the shop to help --- the silly bastards had positioned the lift under the fuel line and squashed it. - they paid for the new starter...

[Indy8]

Fuel pressure gauges are fairly cheap and usually come with a universal line kit for use on most size lines. One of these will give you pre and post FPR readings telling you if there is a weak spot in the fuel delivery system.

[kidd94]

Originally Posted by Indy8

Fuel pressure gauges are fairly cheap and usually come with a universal line kit for use on most size lines. One of these will give you pre and post FPR readings telling you if there is a weak spot in the fuel delivery system.

Well, the shop states that there is a whole 5 lbs. of pressure going through the fuel rail and state that the fuel pump is bad. I told them that the car started this whole winter with a leak in the fuel rail and started everytime. Even in this 1 degree temperatures. I told them that I am a little skeptical that it is the fuel pump. I know that anything can happen when it comes to cars. But when you drive something that morning, replace a part, and a hour and a half later it doesn't start. You don't think it's the fuel pump especially after this winter and being able to start the car all winter long with a leak in the system. They said that they are a hundred percent sure it's the fuel pump.

Is it possible, that when you open up a closed system like the fuel system, and allow air to enter that system, that you could possibly cause something to happen in that system that won't allow the system to repressurize? Is that possible? Is there something that would need to be done to "bleed" the fuel system of air pockets?

[kidd94]

OK. Shop just called and said that the car is all done and ready to go. However, after putting in the fuel pump. They said that the FPR was bad. Any chance that the FPR was my problem all along and that they milked me for a Fuel Pump?... Another freaking 50 bucks.... Total for everything.... $611.95

[BKVic]

For $611 I hope you had it done at a GM dealer so that you have a lifetime warranty for your new pump.


BKVic

[Indy8]

Obviously this is why you would hook-up a gauge pre-FPR to check pump pressure then post-FPR for rail pressure. Sorry you had to find out the hard way.

[RobertHammen]

It's not unusual for the Classic Aurora fuel pumps to just up and die, usually around 80-90k (one guy in another forum I frequent had it happen in the Holland Tunnel during rush hour - ouch!). No symptoms before it just happens...