Swaybars and spring rates

[SilverY2KCivic]

When adding a rear swaybar (maybe front does this too?) I hear and it seems logical that it has the affect of an increased spring rate all in itself. Is there anywhere that lists how much ft/lbs. or kg/mm different bars have the effect of increasing the suspension setup by? I'm thinking like my ITR rear swaybar has an effect of something like 1kg/mm or something like that?

[CivicSiRacer]

I don't know if there is a direct way to measure it since it involves fulcrum points, if the bar is hollow or not, if it is steel or aluminum or titanium, what tires you are using etc....

[SilverY2KCivic]

I figured it was probably something pretty technical.

[Doubletap]

It could never be that easy... lol

DoubleTap

[Prelewd]

corner weighting the car wouldn't tell you this? say weighing it before and after the sway bar?

i don't claim to be an expert, but if the car flexed a little, wouldn't that take the weight off the corner being weighed?

i just thought about it for like 3 minutes, and it doesn't make sense to me anymore, but sometimes my second guesses are wrong.

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by Prelewd

corner weighting the car wouldn't tell you this? say weighing it before and after the sway bar?

i don't claim to be an expert, but if the car flexed a little, wouldn't that take the weight off the corner being weighed?

i just thought about it for like 3 minutes, and it doesn't make sense to me anymore, but sometimes my second guesses are wrong.

I see the logic in that, but I don't think it would work. Once you add the bar back in (corner weighting before hand) I think there would be some off balance issues that would make determining the actual kg/mm differance.

Also of note, spring rate refers to how much force is needed to be exerted on the spring before it begins to compress, and I don't think a corner weight maching could tell you this. You'd need something that would measure the compression force of the suspension BEFORE adding the bar, and then again after adding it.

[CivicSiRacer]

Plus when corner weighing a car you are supposed to disconnect the sway bars anyway

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by CivicSiRacer

Plus when corner weighing a car you are supposed to disconnect the sway bars anyway

Whoa, that I didn't know. I might be getting the Civic corner weighted pretty soon here too! Thanks for that heads up.

[1gspot]

sry to dig it up but how much does corner balancing a car actually help in manueuverability also, does the difference in ride height make the car look lopsided enough to look bad?

[CivicSiRacer]

Originally Posted by 1gspot

sry to dig it up but how much does corner balancing a car actually help in manueuverability also, does the difference in ride height make the car look lopsided enough to look bad?

It depends. I do it myself at my sponsor's shop. I'm guessing around $60-100 for corner weighing. And yes it can help with handling. If your car is not 50/50 then you would turn better one way than the other.

[BullShifter]

Corner weighting helps greatly in a race car, in a street car it's that big of a deal because your not driving on the edge 100% of the time.

No the car won't look lop sided unless there is one side much heavier than the other, for instance a 500lbs driver. Always balance the car with the weight on the driver simulated in the seat by placing weights.

I havent seen SilverY2k on for a while, then again I'm not on much as I used to be. Spend a couple hrs. here on AF + my work(8-10hrs) playing with cars. I think I'm addicted, shit I knew that when I was 4 thanks to this . . . . .

[CivicSiRacer]

I'm on HAN and HT most of the time

[SilverY2KCivic]

I'm here too, just not as much as I used to be. I usually browse the www.sohchonda.com forums mostly these days.

Anyways, about 2 weeks ago I noticed (and HEARD) my ITR rear swaybar tearing itself out of the subframe. And yes, I AM running the Beak's SRK. As soon as I discivered it, I immediately disconnected the endlinks from the LCAs, and all is well for the most part, it could still be tearing, though not anywhere near as much as it would be if the pressure of the ITR swaybar were still on it. I'm furtuneate I caught it in enough time before it did some real serious damage to my car. A homie of mine, his dad is welder, so he's gonna hook that part of repairs for me (thank goodness!) and I was able to obtain an AutoCAD templete of an exact dimension steel plate to weld in place over where the tear will be welded back fixed, so that the tear won't spread or start again, which my friend's dad will also fabricate up for me at his work. Thexe plates and welding don't guarantee it won't happene again, as it WILL eventually start tearing again, though somewhere else on the subframe. My remedy for this will be to get rid of my beloved ITR rear swaybar and Beak's kit, get another Si bar and brackets again, and I'm planning to up my currently 6kg. (336lbs.) rear springs to 10kg (559lbs.), all to make up and compensate for the stiffness I'll be losing from the bar. Already the past 2 weeks my car has felt like crapola in the handling dept. Even adjusting my shock dampening softer at the front and stiffer at the rear didn't help much if any. Understeer is VERY prominent now, and ugh! When all is said and done I'll have spring rates of 8kg up front (going down 2kg from my current 10kg there) and then 10kg springs at the rear along with having my rear Teins revalved to accomidate the much stiffer springs.

This suspension stuff is a b!tch sometimes...

[CivicSiRacer]

This is why I did it right the first time and forked out alittle extra money for the Comptech rear sway bar.

[BullShifter]

Got ya good SilverY2K, luckily in your case it's repairable. My 91 mounts different than the newer Civic's but the brackets bolt to the frame in a cheezy way so I welded & bolted to the frame. That rear sway is on it's stiffest setting(shortest travel) and I haven't had a problem yet.