Dude,where's my country?

[taranaki]

I'm halfway through reading this book,and frankly,it is fascinating.Even if you can't stand Michael Moore,if you are an American voter,I'd urge you to read it.I'll make a special request of any of the pro George Bush camp to read it really carefully[or have it read for you,if neccesary].I'd be delighted if any of dubbya's flag- waving buddies can answer any of the seven key questions that he raises about events leading up to, and immediately following the WTC/Pentagon attacks.

The seven questions for George.

1. Dear Mr. Bush, is it true that the bin Ladens have had business relations
with you and your family off and on for the past 25 years?

2. Dear “Mr. President,” what is the “special relationship” between the
Bushes and the Saudi royal family?

3. Dear “Mr. President,” who attacked the United States on September 11th—a
guy on dialysis from a cave in Afghanistan, or our friends, the Saudi
Arabians?

4. Dear “Mr. President,” why did you allow a private Saudi jet to fly around
the U.S. in the days after September 11th and pick up members of the bin
Laden family and then fly them out of the country without a proper
investigation by the FBI?

5. Dear “Mr. President,” Why are you protecting the "Second ammendment rights" of potential terrorists?

6.Dear “Mr. President,” Were you aware that while you were governor of Texas,the Taliban travelled to Texas to meet with your oil and gas company friends?

7.Dear “Mr. President,”What exactly was that look on your face in the Florida classroom on the morning of September 11 when your chief of staff told you"America is under attack"?

Obviously,this is only a synopsis of part of this most excellent book.It delves far deeper into American affairs of state than most Americans are used to.Some of the little nuggets of information along the way could form whole threads by themselves.

If you are at all interested in any of these questions,I urge you to read the book.Even if it is to just look for ways of picking holes in it.The more people who voted for Bush at the last election read it,the better chance there is that he won't be back for a second term.

Amazon review...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...32952?v=glance

[quarter_mile]

Sounds good, ive watched Michael Moore videos, that man is a genius with a unique pont of view. I should check out that book, thanks for the recommendation

[zebrathree]

He's full of shit, a hatemonger who has lost sight of himself.

[taranaki]

I wouldn't go that far to describe him,he's just a useful little lackey that the big corporations helped into the presidency.........

......Oh ,wait a minute,you are hating on Michael,aren't you?It's not hard to imagine that a man of your background may be a little biased,though.I'd have to do a fair bit of research to investigate all of the claims made in this book,but I'm still glad it made the bestseller lists in the States.Left-wing anger isn't the ideal solution to right-wing anger,but it's better than just sitting there and swallowing the White House lies without ever having access to an alternative viewpoint.

[Oz]

Reading it now. Into Chapter 2. Great XMas pressy. Will get back to this thread.

[Cbass]

I'm surprised! I made it to this thread before Yogs could launch a vicious attack against Moore

The thing that distinguishes Moore from other moderates, and I say moderates, because he is NOT left wing, no matter what Americans are told, is that he has publicity, and he knows how to use it.

He has his head screwed on right, and it's too bad that most Americans refuse to believe anything but the massive web of lies that they are spoon fed on a daily basis by the mainstream media...

[YogsVR4]

Hello eveyone. Just got myself back after a couple weeks so I've got some catching up to do.

I'd like to point out that I may be the only person on this board whos met and talked with this guy. He is an idiot. Most of his reasoning is that of a twelve year old. I've posted the results of our conversations in other theads (at least I think they were here on AF - but possibly on 3si.org or corvetteforums.com)

He is a perfect example of why this country is a good one. Even a moron like him can succeed.

[quarter_mile]

i wanna see your conversations!! i think michael moore is cool!

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

He is a perfect example of why this country is a good one. Even a moron like him can succeed.

Have you read any of his books,Yogs?He succeeds because he asks the questions that the average guy would like answers to,and he succeeds because the questions that he asks would not otherwise get laid out in front of the ordinary people.The mainstream press is only just now starting to act like journalists when it comes to Iraq.From an overseas viewer's perspective,it's pretty obvious that the major news networks stopped doing their job during the middle of last year,and served only as a mouthpiece for Mr Bush's lies.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to write a book criticising a government's performance.What surprises me is that a man that you consider to be an idiot can make such a book into a bestseller simply by asking questions that no politician wants asked.


Are you not in the slightest bit interested in the Bush family's links to the Saudi royal family,and their oil,yogs?You don't strike me as the kind of boss who would go along with such dodgy business practices.

[justacruiser]

"He is a perfect example of why this country is a good one. Even a moron like him can succeed."

Right on.

http://www.revoketheoscar.com/

check that site out. It's on my favs list.

[TexasF355F1]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Hello eveyone. Just got myself back after a couple weeks so I've got some catching up to do.

I'd like to point out that I may be the only person on this board whos met and talked with this guy. He is an idiot. Most of his reasoning is that of a twelve year old. I've posted the results of our conversations in other theads (at least I think they were here on AF - but possibly on 3si.org or corvetteforums.com)

He is a perfect example of why this country is a good one. Even a moron like him can succeed.

Welcome back Yogs. I don't know if you have posted your conversations with him, but you may have before I joined.

To me the guy is childish. He has the biggest infatuation with "Mr. Bush" as he likes to call him I've ever seen. The questions don't seem to be very logical ones, and more based on his opinion. If he's so obsessed with 9/11, then why doesn't he ask Clinton why he didn't look more into al queda(sp?) when he had the chance? I doubt I'll check this book out, but just cuz I've never liked the guy. And my dislike goes back before his Bush bashing.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

If he's so obsessed with 9/11, then why doesn't he ask Clinton why he didn't look more into al queda(sp?) when he had the chance? I doubt I'll check this book out, but just cuz I've never liked the guy. And my dislike goes back before his Bush bashing.

Maybe because Clinton either didn't think Al Qaeda was a significant threat to US soil, or maybe because Al Qaeda was a CIA intelligence asset...

Also, Clinton had been out of office for nearly a year when 9/11 happened... I don't see how you could possibly blame this one on Clinton.

Why is it that anyone who criticizes Bush is called a Bush basher? That's absolutely ridiculous. Bush is probably the worst president the US has ever had, and he rightly deserves criticism.

Clinton may have been a heartless whore for big business who sold out the US, but not only is Bush worse in that regard, he has put the final nail in the coffin of the US economy, alienated the US from all of it's allies, given control of the UN to the European Union, and has most likely given birth to a generation of terrorists who will make the current crop seem like girl scouts.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Hello eveyone. Just got myself back after a couple weeks so I've got some catching up to do.

I'd like to point out that I may be the only person on this board whos met and talked with this guy. He is an idiot. Most of his reasoning is that of a twelve year old. I've posted the results of our conversations in other theads (at least I think they were here on AF - but possibly on 3si.org or corvetteforums.com)

He is a perfect example of why this country is a good one. Even a moron like him can succeed.

My last post got a little of topic, back onto it again.

If Michael Moore is an idiot, it just goes to prove the point. Even an idiot can see what Bush is doing is insane, and only serves to benefit a slim minority, while the vast majority will have to pay for it.

[Dynwolf]

Originally Posted by Cbass

Maybe because Clinton either didn't think Al Qaeda was a significant threat to US soil, or maybe because Al Qaeda was a CIA intelligence asset...

Actually, you can look back at budgetary spending from 1992-1999 and see a steady decrease in allotments to national defense and intelligence organizations under the Clinton administration. While I agree that Clinton is not SOLELY responsible for the attacks, I feel a strong argument can be made for his priorities (or lack thereof) in the intelligence community as a whole, contributing to the lack of knowledge before the attacks.

Originally Posted by Cbass

If Michael Moore is an idiot, it just goes to prove the point. Even an idiot can see what Bush is doing is insane, and only serves to benefit a slim minority, while the vast majority will have to pay for it.

I'm a little confused about this statement. First, what exactly is Bush doing? (I.E. What actions are you referring to in particular?) Second, how do these actions only "serve to benefit a slim majority"?

While I don't necessarily agree with many of the things performed under this administration's leadership, I disagree that the "insanity" as you put it, outweighs the positive side.

Having not read the book (Yet) I can't comment on the Saudi's and/or the AlQuaeda ties.

JM

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by Dynwolf

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Cbass
Maybe because Clinton either didn't think Al Qaeda was a significant threat to US soil, or maybe because Al Qaeda was a CIA intelligence asset...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, you can look back at budgetary spending from 1992-1999 and see a steady decrease in allotments to national defense and intelligence organizations under the Clinton administration. While I agree that Clinton is not SOLELY responsible for the attacks, I feel a strong argument can be made for his priorities (or lack thereof) in the intelligence community as a whole, contributing to the lack of knowledge before the attacks.

That would be because of Clintons foreign policy, which didn't require a large military to defend a nation that had no aggressors...

There was plenty of intelligence on the terrorist attacks, it seems that noone acted on them... That includes Bush, who was in office for quite some time before 911...

Another question that begs asking, where the hell was the air force on 9/11? When radio contact is lost with an airliner, and it changes course, fighters are scrambled immediately. 4 aircraft dropped from radio contact and changed course in the span of a few hours, over the most important part of the country.

An interesting note is that the crash of Flight 93, which supposedly crashed as a result of passengers overpowering the terrorists who were flying it. It appears that the crash evidence is not consistent with this at all, and is instead consistent with the plane being shot down...

http://www.flight93crash.com/

Originally Posted by Dynwolf

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Cbass
If Michael Moore is an idiot, it just goes to prove the point. Even an idiot can see what Bush is doing is insane, and only serves to benefit a slim minority, while the vast majority will have to pay for it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm a little confused about this statement. First, what exactly is Bush doing? (I.E. What actions are you referring to in particular?) Second, how do these actions only "serve to benefit a slim majority"?

While I don't necessarily agree with many of the things performed under this administration's leadership, I disagree that the "insanity" as you put it, outweighs the positive side.

Having not read the book (Yet) I can't comment on the Saudi's and/or the AlQuaeda ties.

JM

I have posted this countless times in other threads, I should really just have a .txt file I can cut and past from.

To start with, I find the economic ideals of Bush to be insane, in an open economy he gave a $7 trillion tax cut. In an open economy, you can expect about 30% of that to actually stay in the economy, meaning that some $4.6 trillion of that is going to be taken directly out of the economy, through foreign investment mostly. Add to this an already massive trade deficit, and you have the bearings of economic disaster. The US economy at this point is dependent on foreign nations buying US dollars, chiefly China and Japan. Foreign banks want US dollars for trading in oil and minerals, which have mostly been traded in US dollars for the last half of the 20th century, because there has been no alternative.

Now there is an alternative, the Euro. Several countries have already switched to the Euro as their commodity currency, including Russia, Iraq, North Korea, Iran, and Syria... Hmm, all countries currently on the US hitlist... Every day the dollar slips compared to the Euro.

http://www.x-rates.com/d/EUR/USD/graph120.html

This graph only counts back 4 months, and keep in mind that when the Euro was introduced in 1999, it was worth less than $1 USD. Now it's worth about $1.30, and it keeps climbing compared to the US dollar. This makes the dollar less than attractive to other nations, when the Euro is available. Add to this the dismal future of the American economy, and it becomes quite possible that key Asian countries could start trading in Euros. Bush is making all the wrong moves during all of this, choosing to punish countries for switching to the Euro, while his narrow agenda makes the dollar less appealing every day.

Bush is taking away freedoms one by one in the US, he already got PATRIOT through, and he is tacking bits of "PATRIOT 2" onto completely unrelated legislation to get it passed. The government can label you a terrorist, and shuttle you off to Guantanamo bay without trial, where they can hold you indefinately without rights.

In the name of anti-terrorism, Bush and Ashcroft are attempting to ammend the constitution so that they do not need a warrant to enter a house or business if they suspect anyone who may at that time be in the house or place of business. The whole point of a warrant is to prevent unreasonable search and seizure, it's a basic right in the constitution. They do not have to prove to anyone at any time that there is any reason to suspect a victim of terrorism, they can raid their house, "detain" the individual so they do not get a trial, and whisk them out of the country. They are not even required to inform anyone of what they have done, they can simply make people disappear!

This hasn't gone through yet, but it doesn't look like anyone will or even can stop it from happening... All they have to do is suspect you of being a terrorist... Or just say that they do, and they will have legal justification to do anything they want to you. I don't know about you, but that scares the shit out of me.

I'm not even going to get started on his foreign policy, as that doesn't concern most Americans...