cold air intakes

[david1486]

I have read that i can get a cheap intake and a good cold air filter and i will save compared to getting a regular CAI like aem or injen. what do u guys think?

[NOBU-SAN]

I have an AEM. I don't think that the lesser priced models are less likely to produce. The V2 is in a league of it's own, but I think the filter makes the difference. If the pipes are the same diameter, and they go to the same place to collect air, and they both are mandrel bent, then it should be the same. That's just my opinion.

Nobu

[BullShifter]

Intakes on a stock engine make more noise than power. Trust me your NOT gonna feel the difference between an ebay/K&N filter or AEM V2.

try searching AF for Cold air, probably the most common subject, or one of them.

[steve8091]

In terms of fluid dynamics, flowrate through a pipe is only dependent on the inner surface roughness of the pipe, the diameter, and the number of bends (or other minor losses). If you look at the flowrate range from the cheapest intakes to the most expensive, you are only looking at about a 15% difference. You need to ask yourself this question - is a 15% difference in performance worth a 500% increase in price?

[CrXb18c1]

Originally Posted by jackasssi

Intakes on a stock engine make more noise than power. Trust me your gonna feel the difference between an ebay/K&N filter or AEM V2.

try searching AF for Cold air, probably the most common subject, or one of them.

yeah I agree..b/c i have one in my CRx ..and it's a cold air intake..it's so noisy..and i want to get rid of it..But can i get an K&n air filter to improve my cold air intake or AEm air filter? isn't the same as the AEM CAI or Injen CAI???..

[david1486]

Thanks for the replies. So if i want to go with cheaper pipes and a good cold air filter, what do i look for? and im thinking that a bypass valve is necessary, what do u think?

[BullShifter]

Bypass valve is a waste of money unless you live in an area that floods a lot. The only time it will actually function is when the air inlet is completely submerged under water.

The only reason I see for buying an expensive intake is because the state you live in is strict on emmisions. The more expensive are CARB approved.

[chimchim]

If you live in California, get a CARB legal one. $200+ fines could have easily bought a nice Injen or AEM.

The intake will only be able to eek out like 2% more engine output, so you won't feel much at all, although it helps in the top end. AEM is a nice thick, but light weight tube with heat resistant paint. This makes for better insulation than a cheap Ebay aluminum tube, but again it's not gonna make that much difference.

I'm more concerned with the quality of the filter. Go K&N. Good deals online... check out knfilter.com and the "buy it online" links.

[steve8091]

If a bypass valve will help you sleep at night, then go ahead with it. Otherwise, I see no real need. Get a K&N filter, and again the piping is fairly inconsequential, so long as it FITS. I'd get both on E-Bay unless you can find better prices elsewhere. Take a look at the seller's feedback and see if previous customers had fitment issues.

[david1486]

thanks alot

[eckoman_pdx]

Okay...geez...to the guy that claimed a CAI will only give a "2% increase in power." Heck, to the guy who posted this, try the search function. There are lots of people very knowlegdable that just don't answer these question, because we are sick of it. I wouldn't post in this thread either, as the search function would yeild all the results you need (this question is asked way to much). The reason I am posting? To dispell the "only 2%" comment and provide the facts on HOW AND WHY a CAI does what it does. Again, the search function would have showed you many others posts I've made explaining this, so try it next time...now...

Cold air is more dense than warm air. There are more air molecules packed into the same area. This means the denser air will provide you with more power. For every 11.1 degree's you lower the intake temp, you get a 1% gain in HP. This is the principle behind how an intercooler for a turbo system, as well as a CAI, work. Get colder air into the motor, it is denser, and will yeild more power at the rate of 1% for every 11.1 degree's lower the intake temp is. Now, if the underhood temp is 110 degrees, and the ambient outside temp is 50 degrees, thats a difference of 60 degrees. This will eqaute out to a 5.4% gain in HP. On a 142HP B18B1, this eqauls a gain of 7.6HP under these circumstances. On a 300HP V8 motor, this would eqaul a 16.2 HP gain. Now, obviously, the colder the outside air, the colder the air getting sucked into the motor will be. This means you will see more of a gain in the middle of winter in Michigan than in the dead of summer in Arizona. How much HP the CAI adds depends on how much you are lowering the intake temp, which depends a lot on the outside temp. Now sense you get a 1% gain in HP for every 11.1 degree's you lower the intake temp, you can see why you would get more of a gain in 40 degree weather in winter than 100 degree weather in summer. If the underhood temp is 110 degrees, that's barely a 1% gain in the hot summer temp above, but the same eqauls a 6.3% gain in the colder winter temp. As stated above, this is theory behind why you put an intercooler on a turbo system, to cool the hot compressed air out coming out of the turbo down before it reaches the intake manifold. It's the same, 1% for every 11.1 degree's you lower the intake temp. You just see a much bigger decrease in temp (in reference to the intake temp and exit temp) with an intercooler, and since the motor already puts out more power, this % gain will result in a high HP gain numbers wise.

[chimchim]

Calm down. 2% is a generalized averaged approximation. Looks like you are proud you understand the CAI theory. That's great, so do the rest of us. CAI theory isn't the only consideration when choosing an intake though.

The reality is, that there are multiple factors that are not being delved into:
- RPM range. All intakes will have a different affect over stock with a different curve over the RPMs. That means, while intake A make produce +8 hp hump at 6000 rpms and -2 at 3500 rpms, intake B make produce a gradual +2 hp from 4500 rpm to 7000 rpms. Which one is "better"? Well, if you only look at top rpms, then A looks better. But if your application wants to use the entire range than B is better.
- Underhood temp CHANGES constantly. There's no doubt cold air density means more O2 to burn; we all know this. There was an article that demonstrated the variables where this guy put a ram air in his car AND A TEMP SENSOR. Yes the "engine gets hot". But his car's grille scooped cool are into the bay while driving at speed. His temp sensor showed that the grille air while at speed actually cooled the engine bay down to outside "cool air". However, while waiting at a stop light, the temperatures quickly shot up to 200+F, and the resulting bogging at the green.
- then consider ambient outside temp.
- carb legal
- bling factor
- ease of installation (those ebay intakes don't come with good instructions, and sometimes require you buy other parts)
- fit
- blah blah blah

But do we really want to type all this explaination when someone asks the CAI question? 2% on a 160 hp engine is 3.2 hp. That might be low, sometimes it's not. Who cares. It's close enough. Maybe I should have said 0-8% or so, depending upon several factors. Is that better?

[BullShifter]

I say, its only an intake who gives a fuck. No matter how special it is, it aint gonna make your car fast.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by chimchim

Calm down. 2% is a generalized averaged approximation. Looks like you are proud you understand the CAI theory. That's great, so do the rest of us. CAI theory isn't the only consideration when choosing an intake though.

The reality is, that there are multiple factors that are not being delved into:
- RPM range. All intakes will have a different affect over stock with a different curve over the RPMs. That means, while intake A make produce +8 hp hump at 6000 rpms and -2 at 3500 rpms, intake B make produce a gradual +2 hp from 4500 rpm to 7000 rpms. Which one is "better"? Well, if you only look at top rpms, then A looks better. But if your application wants to use the entire range than B is better.
- Underhood temp CHANGES constantly. There's no doubt cold air density means more O2 to burn; we all know this. There was an article that demonstrated the variables where this guy put a ram air in his car AND A TEMP SENSOR. Yes the "engine gets hot". But his car's grille scooped cool are into the bay while driving at speed. His temp sensor showed that the grille air while at speed actually cooled the engine bay down to outside "cool air". However, while waiting at a stop light, the temperatures quickly shot up to 200+F, and the resulting bogging at the green.
- then consider ambient outside temp.
- carb legal
- bling factor
- ease of installation (those ebay intakes don't come with good instructions, and sometimes require you buy other parts)
- fit
- blah blah blah

But do we really want to type all this explaination when someone asks the CAI question? 2% on a 160 hp engine is 3.2 hp. That might be low, sometimes it's not. Who cares. It's close enough. Maybe I should have said 0-8% or so, depending upon several factors. Is that better?

lool dude, I am not braggin cuz I am "proud I understand dthe thoery," destipe the fact your NOOB dumbass would like to think so. Don't go off acting all big and bad assuming I am stupid and am proud cuz that's all I understand....I wasn't trying to tell the boy HOW to picking an intake...I wasn't telling anyone "how to pick an intake" for that matter...he's knew....and lots of new people HAVE NO CLUE WHY A CAI WORKS!! So, since you made a generalized statement, and he didn't seem to understnad much, I thought I'd explain why you get a power gain with a CAI, and the theory behind it. That way you all could understnad the thorey of how a CAI generally works better. So don't go off getting offended and being an ass...show some respect to the vets noob. I wasn't trying to "one up anyone," or act all big and smart..I was just trying to explain HOW A CAI WORKS....since it appeared some people in here didn't understnad...now jackasssi? He understands, and then some...and to prove his point, all CAI work because of this some general princple...the colder air is more dense, etc...so as he said...who gives a fuck, and intake is an intake, a different intake, lime AEM vs a custom one, isn't gonna make you a lot faster. Having an intkae in no way gives you a performance gain or makes you fast..it's just a good start to get some extra kick, like 4-7% extra kick depending on the weather......now if you need CARB approval of some authenticain for emissions, then that's not true (about an intake being an intaKE, sll the same), you need an AEM, etc. Still, the performance function is the same, you just need to intake which has paid for CARB testing and approval; but with the expect to the V2, and intake is an intake, and a custom intake will do just the same in genral as you $200 injen, and for a lot less.

[chimchim]

My bad then, sorry. I thought you were just being an ass for the sake of being an ass simply because you have vet status on this board.