V6 question Pressure vs. Heat ??

[TiburonDelAsesino]

I was just wondering what exactly causes the bolts on the bottom end of the V6 to come out. Is it the internal pressure (psi) caused by higher hp setups or is it the rise in heat & engine temperature that causes the bolts to come out?

Also how much harm would you be doing by actually welding the bolts to the bottom end to solve the 250hp problem. Is it practicle, like do those bolts need to come off often for matienence?

Would going the N/A route lower the psi inside an engine with the same hp setup as a an engine with a supercharger?

[tibby01]

the block of the v-6 is aluminum, and when aluminum heats up, it becomes soft. so the threads cant hold the centripidal(or centrifugal, cant remember which) of the crankshaft on the bottom end bolts, because they soften up. this causes the bolts to rip the threads right out once the force of the crankshaft spinning(torque) gets to high. so it doesnt matter what route you go. you get to around 250whp and the thing is gonna blow(apparently).

welding the bottom end would fix the problem, but it would have to be a strong weld. its not very practical though, because once you get your hp up into that range, little problems can arise that you otherwise wouldnt be able to get to.

[TiburonDelAsesino]

So keeping the engine temp down is the key factor in keeping the V6 bottom end from blowing. I have an oil cooler already and am looking for a performance radiator. Would this help in keeping the engine at a safe temp. if im running around 150 whp?


On a side note ** damnit hyundai fix your weak v6 problem!!!

[tibby01]

the temp. of the engine does have a little to do with the problem, but it is not the big problem. the temp. its just that the bolts weren't designed properly. maybe try threading the bolts further into the block, but make sure to watch out for coolent paths. also make the bolts bigger and torque them in more. that could mess up other things though. the best alternative would be to get an iron block made. but that would cost a LOT.

Originally Posted by TiburonDelAsesino

On a side note ** damnit hyundai fix your weak v6 problem!!!

it would have been nice if they made it stronger, but they did make an engine that does fine and will last its 10 year warranty in stock form.

[TiburonDelAsesino]

Ok so the problem is the aluminum threads in the engine strippind due to heat and pressure associated with high hp/torque. Aside from welding the bolts and plate to the bottom end, would using a generous portion of JB Weld to the bolts prior to bolting them on work? That would be a strong chemical bond between the bolts and the aluminum, or is that just as nonreversable as actually welding everything down there. Any other ideas on a resolution to this problem would be appreciated by many GT owners =)

Heres the specs on the JB weld...
http://www.jbweld.net/coldweld.html

Another interesting idea (nord-lock)....
http://www.nord-lock.com/default.asp?id=1&language=4

[ColeIketani]

Isn't the I4 an iron block?

[tibby01]

yes, the i4 is an iron block. thats why it is much better for high hp numbers.

heres what i think about those two ideas.

the nord lock thing looks like it just keeps the washer and nut from seperating, keeping a strong hold in. i dont think that would do anything to help the bolts ripping outta the block though. i only skimmed things though so im not really sure.

the jbweld thing would be just like welding the bottom end on.

[Adam_Hunsicker]

why don't you try jb welding some studs in where the bolts would go then put a nut on the other end of the stud to keep everything together? Just a thought.

[TiburonDelAsesino]

thats actually not a bad idea. I wonder if the jb weld would be strong enough to hold up to the pressure being exerted on the plate the bolts are holding in. And does the bottom end of the engine surpass 500 degreez F? I believe it would not be that hot, but im not sure.
I do like that stud idea though.

[Adam_Hunsicker]

I personally have no idea what the tinsel strength of JB Weld is... however, to ensure the strength of the bond you may want to drill out the holes and rethread them a little so you can go about 1/8 - 1/4 of an inch deeper into the block with the studs. Check on this before you do it, I don't want to be the one responcible for you drilling something that should have been. Anyways, after you do that if you're a good enough welder you should be able to tack weld the studs to the block and grind it down smooth so the plate fits flush again. All that combined with the JB Weld I'm sure will hold. One problem you're going to run into.... aluminum is a pain in the a$$ to weld... if you're not great with a welder you may want to have that professionally done. If you decide to do it please, let me know how it turned out.... I'm curious as to if I may have helped solve the v6 problem

[TiburonDelAsesino]

The JB Weld tensil strength is 3960 lbs/psi, other properties are listed in the link on my erlier post.

I think if one is going to go with the stud idea you should just get the same diameter and thread as the old bolts but just get bolts about 2 inches longer. Then grind the aluminum on the block around the holes out a little so you can get a stronger weld and still be plush with the bottom. (follow me so far?) Then jb weld the bolts and torque them in a little extra. Tack weld them at the block, and grind it down smooth. then cut the top of the bolt off so you can use the Nord Lock washers and finaly torque on a nut to the proper tightness...
Hope you could follow me

Does anyone know the exact size of the bolts that hold the plate on the bottom end?

[1QUICK2]

I follow, but seems like too much work for an unkown outcome which will prop only hold maybe what?.....25 more HP. Also, who came up with this "blows up @ 250hp" thing? Is this documented? bottom line....if you have a V6 sell it or deal with the HP. at least it sounds good w/ an exhaust. My moto is " push it till it blows up, then turn down the boost 2 lbs!"

[TiburonDelAsesino]

Well being able to handle more horsepower and torque is a step forward =)

[tibby01]

Originally Posted by 1QUICK2

Also, who came up with this "blows up @ 250hp" thing? Is this documented? bottom line....if you have a V6 sell it or deal with the HP. at least it sounds good w/ an exhaust. My moto is " push it till it blows up, then turn down the boost 2 lbs!"

250 whp...koreans did. obviously, thats not an exact number, but it is somewhere around there + or - 20 whp.

i would just deal with the hp. there is no point in buying the car and then blowing the engine up. maybe that number doesnt exist though... we will see when nextgen releases his new dyno(not claimed hp numbers...i want proof).

nice motto ...lol

[TiburonDelAsesino]

I remember seeing somewhere a technical diagram of the bottom end of the engine. It also showed the bottom plate and the bolts to hold it on. If anyone has a link to this page (might be on another forum) i would appreciate it. Or if anyone knows where i can get technical digrams of the bottom end I would love to see it. I am trying to design a new sleve/bolt/plate design for the bottom end but i need technical data before i can start plotting on CAD.

Once i get the design done, im going to have the new parts machined at my college machine shop. When its done it should solve the pressure/heat problem those bolts on the bottom end face. It will also not be a permanent solution like just welding the whole plate on. It will be removable just in case you have to open the bottom end of the engine up.

The only downside is I dont want to be the one to test the new parts on my car b/c i dont have the money to bring the HP of my tib above 220. But maby i can find a totaled tib with an intact engine or if a company would like to test my parts I would be more than happy.

Sorry I cant give away any details as I will be getting a pattent on this product.

Thanks!