HP doesnt win races

[95_GSX]

HP alone doesn't win races and i know that 95GSXracer knows this. You must have both to win and be fast. Because if you are going to have no torque you might as well buy a Honduh.

[1qwik4]

You must have more than horsepower and torque to win races. You have to have a good suspension, traction, be a good driver, gears. There is a lot more to the equation than horsepower and torque.

[NeonblueEclipse]

whats this posting for ???

[95_GSX]

Originally Posted by NeonblueEclipse

whats this posting for ???

Kevin(95GSXracer) made this comment earlier on another thread but he didn't want to hi-jack it. he said make a new thread. i wanted to hear what he had to say.

originally posted by 1qwik4:
"You must have more than horsepower and torque to win races. You have to have a good suspension, traction, be a good driver, gears. There is a lot more to the equation than horsepower and torque."

yes that is true but i started this thread because of the above reason.

[duckydsp]

I think half of the battle is the driver. If two cars are evenly matched, the drivers will make the difference. A bad driver just isn't going to win races no matter what they do.

[NeonblueEclipse]

agreed
"granny shifting , not double clutching when they should be "
lol
sorry had to get that out

but fer sure, the driver can make all the difference, even if the cars aren't matched, if the weaker car has the better driver and the faster car has the not-so-good driver it ll even it out

[kjewer1]

Even if we limit the discussion to JUST horsepower and torque, HP is what determines your et/mph, not torque. This is a widely misunderstood concept, and I see it on all forums. Since HP also takes rpm into account, lets say that the higher in the rpm band you can make your torque, the better your times will be. And this can all be worked out with some simple math.

[quiktsi]

To put it simply Hp comes in the top half of your RPM range. TQ comes it in the bottom half. No TQ no win, No HP no win. The truth is you need to have a balanced set up it can be more HP. TQ is what pulls you off the line and HP is what takes you thru the trap and the finish line. Bad driver with a fast car is WHAT? Still a bad driver. #1 no your car and what it is cable of, push some of the limits and see what you can do.

[kjewer1]

TQ doesnt even get you off the line. HP does EVERYTHING. Torque is a measurement of a static force. For example, you can put 100 ft lbs on the torque wrench on your lug nuts, but the lug nut doesnt move. Its a static force. You cant move anything with a static force. Once it does move, it becomes HP, a force applied over time. Movememnt is required. Also, until there is movement no work is done. You can put that 100 ftlbs on that lug wrnech all day and sweat your ass off, but if its not moving, no work is being done. HP is work done when you get down to it. Tq and HP are mathematically equivelent, they are tied together. You cant seperate the two. The only reason torque comes in the lower half, and HP comes in the higher half, is because mathematically they MUST cross at 5252 rpm (if the motor revs that high). Its simply because thats the constant in the equation

HP=tqxrpm divided by 5252

For drag racing Tq doesnt even matter. HP is what gets you down the track. Again, HP is work done, or a force applied over time. This is what gives your car movement. You cant calculate your elapsed time or your trap speed (miles per HOUR) without including time. This is why all of the ET/trap/HP calculators use or give you HP, and have nothing to do with torque If torque affected the outcome, surely you would need to include it right? No calculator will take torque and give you ET/mph, or take ET/mph and give you torque. Its not possible. But, there are plenty of calculations that will do this for you. In fact, in my personal expereinece with my car and others, some of them are VERY accurate. Within 10 hp at over 400 hp. (www.dsm.org calc is very good, and the only one I use)

That being said, and going back to my previous post, lets propose a question here. We have two cars. They both make the same peak torque, but one car makes it in the 3k rpm range, and the other makes it in the 6k rpm range. The cars are the same weight. Which will trap higher? And why.

[CODE4]

welcome to math class, taught by Mr Jewer =]

[kjewer1]

I still have a lot to learn myself, but believe me I could go on for hours on this topic. But I would rather see everyone else think about the problem and take a stab at it, than just ramble on for pages about some technical BS babble. But dont worry, I will eventually

So. We have two cars. They both make the same peak torque, but one car makes it in the 3k rpm range, and the other makes it in the 6k rpm range. The cars are the same weight. Which will trap higher? And why.

I'll answer/explain eventually, but if anyone knows, or thinks they have figured it out, dont be afraid to take a stab at it. It can be said in one sentence, or in 10 pages of text

[95_GSX]

Originally Posted by 95 GSXracer

That being said, and going back to my previous post, lets propose a question here. We have two cars. They both make the same peak torque, but one car makes it in the 3k rpm range, and the other makes it in the 6k rpm range. The cars are the same weight. Which will trap higher? And why.

i would say that the car that makes max TQ in the 3000 RPM range. Because you should reach max HP quicker than if TQ was until the 6000 RPM range. Since you are getting into your horse power faster, you should be able to reach a higher trap speed.

P.S. Thanks for the lesson Kevin. Its been a while since i reviewed my physics book from last year. everything you said was right( of course) and makes complete since if you know anything about how forces act on each and their basic definitions.

[1qwik4]

Yes I have to agree and say that if you max out your torque at 3k rpm you will have a higher trap speed than 6k rpm. With a max torque at 3k rpm your acceleration would be much greater than at 6k rpm....

[ashah000]

Yes it definitely would have to be the car with 3k max torque.
This is going to be great for tomorrow, we are learning torque in physics class.

[boosting20psi]

GSX RACER you now your shit but one question if you take two of the same car that both red line a 6,000, but one car has 190 pt (pounds of tourc) and the other one only has 25 pt. which car will win the race???
you see tourc dose play a factor when it comes to the hole shot. becuse if you cant put the hp to the wheels then you are just &*$%. if you know what i mean. and most i say most races are won in the hole. sorry if every thing is spelled wrong.