mustang vs nissan

[nacho_nissan]

So what do you all guys think about the nissan Z cars? We had this thread in the nissan forums,but the only thing we learned was that "there is the ultimate 2005 mustang right around the corner,ready to take nissans"(SVTcobra007x said this)I would like to know better facts than those,which is better?

[Patmack18]

I've driven the 350Z. Good looking car, fun if you're under 6' tall, but over priced. Funny as thats what killed it the last time. My '96 300Z Twin Turbo would've killed a 350. As far as the 2005 'Stang... their talking about 400 HP for the GT.... lets see anyone other than 'Vette owners stand up to it.

[Ace$nyper]

Z cars for hard driving those TTs moved. The new one is nice lot more comfy then the 300zx.I like Z cars thats my vote.

[syr74]

The next Cobra is, according to the head of SVT going to put at least 500hp on the asphalt (06 model yeay most likely). Hubba, hubba, and again I say hubba.

I have yet to see a new 350Z at the track so I cannot comment on their true accelration capabilities. Cobra's with a good driver run solid twelves and Mach are good for low to mid 13's from what I have seen. I do know that unless the magazine jocks were asleep when they drove the 350Z the Mach-1 and the Cobra are both gonna take it in a straight line.

Also, as I have never seen one on a road course either all I can unfortunately go off is a magazine comparo where the Cobra left the 350Z on a road course...pretty handily. I believe it was Car and Driver's comparo.

The pony is nowhere near as "refined" as the new Z car, but that is to be expected between design architectures with thirty years between their initial intros. And, better is just an opinion, as people who pick the 350 over the Cobra or Mach, and people who choose the Mustangs over the Z prove daily.

I will say I am not a fan of the new 350Z myself. Until a turbo (That Infiniti V-8 would be sweeeet)or an eight shows up it will remain underpowered for the dough IMO. Also, I don't car for the styling at all, although Mustang styling isn't currently rivaling any sixties Shelby cars. However, the 05 pony appears to be fixing that problem as well.

I am not bashing the Z at all, as I love the last gen 300ZX, and I think it was a far better car than the new Z IMO. And, just a better Z car too.

[syr74]

Oh, and ace...regarding your sig. I always liked calling it the fat and the flatulent. Mainly because the black Honda Civic's in that film indeed sounded flatulent, and most of the cars looked like pigs to me. No offense to import owners intended, just an affront to all the "bling".

[longlivetheZ]

The Z is by far worth the money. WONDERFUL car to drive. You drive it hard, and it responds very well with very good performance in every aspect...you drive it normal, and it is a very comfortable, livable, damn near luxurious (auto climate control, nice seats, etc) performance car. I too was dissappointed to see no turbos on it...but they are coming, I'm sure. They just don't have them yet because they didn't want to introduce the 350Z as a $45,000+ car. Don't forget...the aftermarket is growing exponentially. They have TT and supercharger kits out now that will make the car into a full blown beast for under the price of a Cobra...and the Z can turn, too...not just go straight.

Moreover...I like the Z32TT more. I can pick up a low mileage ZTT in excellent condition for $15-20G. Sink another 10 into it (if THAT) and have a car that will make any mustang on the market cry in the beer. For that much bang for the buck, you just can not beat the Z32TT. Check out the customer's rides section on www.sgpracing.com and look at "Kyle's" car. 10 second automatic on street tires that he drives to work every day.

I know looks are subjective, but not only do you see mustangs EVERYWHERE like damn bacteria, but they are so plain and boring looking. The Z is a very beautiful car that looks almost like a Ferrari. The Z will always be a head turner. I got compliments on my 1986 Z31 2+2 until the very day I sold it (which I still deaply regret to this day...damn near 6 months later)...and it was nothing special at ALL.

Originally Posted by Mendari

The Mustang carries 2 more passengers and Ford will never kill off the Mustang. Japanese car companies have a frequent tendency to stop producing sports cars for years at a time (R.I.P. Supra, 300ZX, RX-7 ). This makes them fragile in the sense that finding aftermarket or O.E. replacement parts is an excercise in patience. Anyone whom has owned a Nissan knows that this is painfully true.
Also, the new DEW Mustang chassis that is coming out will provide a strong rebuttal against the current Nissan chassis.

This statement by Mendari can be considered very helpful in this thread.

[nacho_nissan]

from what i've heard,they stopped producing the skylines and supras because they had a lack of sales the last few years..They could have helped the lonely Z in this jap vs american battle,hopely they'll be back soon...YEAH!

[syr74]

As far as performance goes, when you start talking modifications all bets are off for sure. However, if it is a Cobra vs. 350Z comparo concerning which is easier to take to insane hp levels, well the Cobra can reach 500 rwhp without major monetary investment.

So, while I respect the new Z car I do not think this is a war the new Z will win. The last generation 300ZX TT is a far better rival in this respect, although I don't believe even it is quite so inexpensive to mod. The new car will pose a better argument than the current Z when and if turbos show up.

As an fyi the Mach-1 is not nearly so easily modded for such a low amount of dough as the Cobra, and is closer in price to the 350Z. So ,that may actually be a more "fair" comparrison to the 350Z overall, money considered.

I am constantly amazed at people who refer to "anything vs. the Cobra" and say "Well, at least my car can handle". Again, this may be applicable to an extent to the live rear axle Mach-1 and GT. But, the Cobra is a vastly different car under the skin than the Mach or GT from it's bigger and blown engine right back to it's IRS.

Stock for stock, on virtually every road course the Cobra is going to leave the new Z car...period. Yes, this is largely due to the Cobra's massive advantage in power and great brakes, but handling cannot be that bad or the Cobra just flat wouldn't be faster around a course. The only venue I could see the Z winnign in would be an autocross course.

I have already mentioned that the Cobra is nowhere near as "refined" as the 350Z. For an example the car has very direct steering that does exactly what you tell it to. However, it doesn't have very good feel while doing it. Roll is very well controlled and the car is easy to steer with the throttle. Although, it is more easily unsettled on rough surfaces than a much newer design like the Z. These things bother some people, and don't bother others.

I would also mention that an aftermarket turbo kit with everything necessary to make it function properly installed on an new 350Z would likely put the car very, very close to Cobra price territory. And, for something like another grand the Cobra can turn about 500 rwhp. You can argue the "my modded car will outrun yours" angle all day.

As always, it just comes down to preference.

[Kurtdg19]

Originally Posted by syr74

As far as performance goes, when you start talking modifications all bets are off for sure. However, if it is a Cobra vs. 350Z comparo concerning which is easier to take to insane hp levels, well the Cobra can reach 500 rwhp without major monetary investment.

How good of a comparison is it to compare a Cobra vs. 350Z? I would think that the Cobra would literally walk all over it. Now a GT vs. 350Z? That sounds fair. The Cobra holds a 100+hp advantage over the Z. I don't see how, given the design of a 350Z, it could ever hold a chance of beating a way more powerful Cobra. That is stock for stock. I agree that the Cobra would probably wipe the floor against the Z. But how bout a GT vs. 350Z? I would go for the Z.

[YukiHime]

Originally Posted by nacho_nissan

from what i've heard,they stopped producing the skylines and supras because they had a lack of sales the last few years..They could have helped the lonely Z in this jap vs american battle,hopely they'll be back soon...YEAH!

But what I heard is because of pollution limits them...

[longlivetheZ]

Originally Posted by syr74

As far as performance goes...investment.

Interesting that you say that...you don't consider the Cobra a modified car? It is a normal mustang that SVT modded...new heads, supercharger, etc. This is why I don't believe the Cobra is a fair comparison against a stock 350Z. It's a supercharged V8 vs. a NA V6...whoever thinks this is fair is a special boy. The VQ (the engine in the 350Z) is a very durable, well built engine that is just starting to have the aftermarket open up for it. Hell...the engine's been on Ward's top ten engine list EVERY YEAR since tthe list has been in existance. It's the only engine to do so, as well.

Originally Posted by syr74

So, while I respect the...if turbos show up.

This is a war that any 90+ Z can win, however...you have to make it a LITTLE more fair. The NA 350Z already beats the holy hell out of the V6 mustang, the GT, and the Mach 1 (in every way that involves more then just going straight). The Z32TT (last gen 300ZX) is not very expensive to mod.

Originally Posted by syr74

As an fyi the Mach-1...money considered.

It is the fairest comparo as far as price goes, but the Mustang still has a much larger engine.

Originally Posted by syr74

I am constantly...back to it's IRS.

It is quite true. The GT pulls .82 lat g and the Z pulls .89. Quite a difference. The cobra handles the same as the Z with a .9. Keep in mind: numbers vary (0-60 times and 1/4 mostly)...I hate JUST looking at numbers because of this. Example: I've seen the Z32TT stock 0-60 quoted as high as ~5.8 seconds and as low as ~5 seconds. That's a massive difference, so anytime either of these subjects come up, I take it with a grain of salt.

Originally Posted by syr74

Stock for stock...course.

I haven't heard of any cobra beating a Z on a road course and I'd like to see that article. However, I actually kinda expect this due to the very large power diff. On the other hand, the mustang's weight distribution is quite bad. 57/43 f/r. Not good. It can pull the same lat exceleration as the Z, but I doubt it handles as well as the Z. The Z has a very good 53/47 f/r distribution. I've driven a couple of them and I can vouch that they handle wonderfully. The steering is very precise and well balanced with variable power assist that is majorly only noticable at low speeds. Great car to drive hard or on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by syr74

I would also mention that an aftermarket turbo kit with everything necessary to make it function properly installed on an new 350Z would likely put the car very, very close to Cobra price territory. And, for something like another grand the Cobra can turn about 500 rwhp. You can argue the "my modded car will outrun yours" angle all day.

Click here for some Stillen stuff. You can get just the S/C for ~$4,000 or you can get the "stage II" which comes with an intercooler for ~$5,600. I'm willing to bet you can find the I/C cheaper then ~$1,600, though...that's a lot for an I/C and some piping. You can run 5.7 psi which adds 67 hp making 354HP @ 6,000 rpm and 318-lb.ft. torque at 4,200 rpm. "Stage II" with the intercooler lets you raise the boost to approx 10 psi, I think...can't remember exactly. I have to find the article. 10 psi yields over 400hp at the wheels. ~$30,000 + ~$5,600 (which is REALLY expensive for what it is)....pretty damn fast car and that's damn close to a new stock cobra's MSRP of $35,200 (probably be closer to $40,000...the dealer wants some, too) and I could probably even get those HP numbers or more for less money if I looked around some. I'd like to know how you plan on getting 500 hp to the turf out of the cobra for $1,000...

There is also this TT kit and many other S/C and TT kits...they even have S/C kits that don't require hood mods. There are actually more out there then I thought.

If I saw the bottom pic coming up behind me, I'd be scared no matter what I'm driving...

Originally Posted by syr74

As always, it just comes down to preference.

True.......kinda........

[longlivetheZ]

Originally Posted by YukiHime

But what I heard is because of pollution limits them...

They probably quit producing the Skyline to keep interest peaked. I'm not sure, though.

They quit making the 300ZX and Supra because of a struggling economy, lack of demand, and soaring prices.....simply put.....they were becoming too expensive and people just didn'thave the money. A new 300ZX TT in the mid 90s was a 35-40 thousand dollar car. That's really, really expensive for that time. This is why they didn't release the new Z right off the bat with turbos and convertables and this that and the other thing. They wanted to keep the price down at first. I think they did quite a good job of it.

...I bet turbos are coming...

[Moppie]

They still make the skyline in the Japan (currently there is a 2dr and 4dr V35 which uses the same platform as the 350z), it has not missed a year of production since its creation sometime in the 60s, and is currently sold in the US badged as the G35.

And the 350z is merely a continuation of the Z car line, started by the 240z in 1970 which was then followed by the 260z and 280z, then the two 300zx cars, then a small break of a few years and now the 350z, a car which harks back to the light weight nimble handling 240z.

In Japan, where the Z family is most popular they are treated with the same regard as the Mustang is in America, and around the world they are seen as an Icon to the Japanese way of building sports cars, in the same way the Mustang is seen as an Icon to the American ideal of a sports car.

Any comparison of the two cars, whether its a factory special 240z, or a Shelby Cobra, brings out some interesting differnces between the cultures of Japan and America, and how it affects they way they design and build cars, as well as some interesting similarties.
The cars are so similar in thier purpose yet so differnt in its execution that a comparison based purely on thier ablity turn numbers is pointless.

[syr74]

LonglivetheZ. Okay, first of all I will gladly tell you how to get 500 rwhp out of the 03 Cobra as I have seen a LOT of dyno pulls for this particlar car. Also, I would note that this combo I am going to mention is often referred to within Mustang circels as "the Cobra recipe", so knowledge of it within those circles is pretty common.

Okay, let me qualify this by saying that I have seen more than one 03 Cobra dynoed in bone dstock trim and both made right at 360 rwhp. With the 17 percent driveline loss we used to figure true hp at the crank that is right at 420 which is a wee bit hgiher than Ford claims.

We have 140rwhp to go, and three things will get you right up to 500 rwhp. First of all an underdrive pulley, and quite often you see stock SVT Lightning pulleys used. Anybody who understands even the basics of forced induction knows why this works, and how it creates so much more power.

Second of all a ram air kit on a Cobra yields miraculous improvements even with nothing else done to the car. Ford had a hard time making the Cobra pass drive by standards so the car ended up breathing through a straw in order to be legal. I have seen this mod by its self put the car well into the 400 rwhp range and add another 30 hp. With an underdrive pulley and the blower sucking more air.....well you figure out how much that significantly improved sir flow is worth.

Finally, a cat back exhaust works wonders with these two mods, although with stock heads and a stock blower headers don't seem to do much. IMO they aren't worth the money unless you plan on going further than these simple mods.

With those three mods I have personally witnessed an 03 Cobra pull 490 rwhp and change on the dyno. Not quite 10 rwhp shy of 500. This was in early summer, so you factor in a slightly colder day and a bit wilder exhaust and there is your 500 rwhp plus a bonus.

Also, as far as price goes, a lot of Lightning owners switch pulleys so used ones are fairly cheap. Heck, new ones are fairly cheap and it doesn't cost much to get it pressed on either.

A cat back exhaust, well, those are pretty cheap too as is the cold air kit. Honestly, if you couldn't get all that for LESS than a grand you aren't trying very hard.

And SVT can be consdired an in house tuner at best, with that neign a stretch. The Cobra is not an aftermarket tuned car with every car starting out only to end up as a Cobra. So this is not a GT someone tweaked on.

Also, SVT is nothin but a name Ford put on it's go fast works. Big deal. The Cobra is just a Ford with a lot of power and a marketing ploy.

Yes, the Mach-1 is closest in price but this "not fair because the engine is bigger" stuff is kinda weak. The Mach has live axle rear suspension compared to the Z's IRS so in that respect it wouldn't "be fair" to the Mach to compare it to the Z. But, they are in the same price range so they are going to get compared.

I will have to find that article for you, but I can tell you that it was either R&T or Car and Driver running a comparo of the Cobra, RX8 and 350Z. I will also tell you it was not a close race. However, the Z did finish on the road course second although I am surprised you didn't see it being a Z fan.

I dislike magazine numbers as much as you do, however, I have little else to go on with the Z as I have never seen one at the strip. I have seen Cobra's get well into the twelves bone stock on factory rubber. 12.6 is as fast as I have ever seen one go bone stock period.

With all due respect we can invoke the laws of physics here and surmise that a stock Z isn't getting anywhere near twelves unless you shot it from a cannon. Yes, for a naturally aspirated V-6 it is quite impressive, and even I believe that Nissan builds the best six cylinder in the world money considered.

The Z car has it's advantages for sure, and it does quite well with them. While this comparo seems a bit odd to me, it is inevitable given the demise of the F-body for the Mustang and the lack of a Japanese sports car for the Z to plaay with. (I do not count the horribly misconceived RX8, or the waaaay expensive for what you get and noticeably slower S2000. Also, the NSX is a bit on the "good God what are they smoking" expensive side too.) nd, of course, fast cars always get compared.

The reason I say it is an odd comparo is even with a more refined 05 Mustang, these two carw ould seem to attract two different sets of enthusiasts to me. And, I don't just mean handling versus strip as even if the Mustang becomes a corner carver all around I think that more often than not they just attract two different personalities.