Reflection on an article on hybrid cars and the domestic companies lack of acceptance

[tenguzero]

I read a interesting article today from the Sunday Boston Globe. It was front page in the Automotive section: "US manufacturers slow to take the hybrid road"

I was amazed when presented with the statement in black and white- that Domestic companies (namely the big 3) have YET to sell a single hybrid, while foreign companies are already in their second generation. So, what might be some reasons why they aren't on the bandwagon yet? I'll voice my two reasons-

1. Despite the fact that the weakness (that is our reliance on foreign countries for oil) has truly reared its ugly head, the oil companies still have an iron grip, and as long as Joe Trendy, the suburban trekker is fueling up his ridiculously unnecessary Yukon XL Denali, or Escalade ESV, or the godawful Hummer, on $70 worth of petroleum based gold, they (the oil companies) are happy. Take away the beasts gas-guzzling appetite, in place of efficient hybrid power, and the gas companies are hurting.

2. I've heard another interesting view voiced recently. The domestic companies are just sitting back, and waiting for the foreign companies to spend the $ and R&D hours on perfecting the hybrid, THEN they'll throw their hats into the ring. Unfortunately, the only company that seems to have a viable plan of attack right now (based on this idea) is Dodge/Chrysler. Think about it- they're pushing these new performance based street racers to the younger crowd (who apparently is showing record levels of expendable income) and hedging on the fact that, while they KNOW gas premiums are high, and they KNOW hybrid is coming on strong, they figure if they can just get another couple years worth of income milked from the younger group who is willing to spend it the most, they'll have a large monetary advantage when hybrid time arrives, easing the costs of switching over (the bulk?) of production to what will have become a proven technology. Meanwhile, Chevy is seemingly lost in the woods with their line- and I've yet to see anything truly innovative from them (let's face it, Camaro's and Corvettes only appeal to a niche crowd.) Ford is in a tough spot too. Obviously, their line isn't NEAR where it used to be (and I'm sorry, but the new Thunderbird is in my opinion a blunder, while the Mustang line isn't sitting too pretty either) and while they seem to have a strong holding with the Focus, including the plans for a diesel variant, they've obviously placed their hopes on their truck line. Unfortunately, with the hybrid era seemingly coming into stride, There may be (I can only hope) trouble looming for the beastly gas guzzlers, that combined with the stronger showing of force in the Pickup arena from foreign companies, and you have a possibility for real trouble in Ford town.

These are my feelings on the matter, how about yours?

[TexasF355F1]

All domestic companies are working on alternate fueled vehicles, mostly with hydrogen if i remember right. But its not the manufacturers, its the masses. Not many people want a hybrid car b/c of the size and lack of performance. I fall in the latter, I'll stick to my gas mobile.

[Steel]

i still don't see why we don't start a conversion-to-methanol proccess. If it catches on thoughout the world, hell, the U.S. could devote huuuuge crops of wheat just for the alcohol, and be a major exporter of the stuff.

[tenguzero]

I'd like to hope, that by the time I'm ready (and can afford) my next car, that the technology will have produced an efficient, yet performance oriented vehicle. If that were the case, I'd definately jump onboard. 2 or 3 years more, I should think. I like the govt. rebates too...however, I (like a lot of people who HAVE bought or would consider buying a hybrid) think it's bull$h!t how they'll give a person $100,000 rebate toward the purchase of a gas-guzzling, piece of crap H2 (if they can show it is for business needs,) and yet only $1500-2000 toward a hybrid. That's about 95% versus only 10%.

[damir831]

http://www.edmunds.com/news/conceptc...4/article.html

Honda DualNote
The Fast Green Machine
By Brent Romans
Date Posted 01-17-2002
Exotic performance cars, while certainly desirable, are usually associated with extremely poor fuel economy. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, the Lamborghini Murcielago has the worst fuel economy for all 2002 cars and trucks, earning a 9/13 mpg city/highway rating. The Ferrari 360 Modena isn't much better with an 11/16 rating. Fortunately, one likely isn't worried about the cost of filling up a tank when spending more than $150,000 on a car.

But do high performance and high fuel economy have to be mutually exclusive? Honda doesn't think so. At the 2001 Tokyo Motor Show, the company unveiled its DualNote concept car. This four-door, four-passenger vehicle produces 400 horsepower. The kicker? It also gets more than 40 miles to the gallon.

This amazing feat is possible thanks to a hybrid gasoline/electric powertrain. The basic concept is similar to that found in the 2002 Honda Civic Hybrid and the pioneering Honda Insight. The DualNote is equipped with a mid-mounted 3.5-liter i-VTEC V6 engine with electric Integrated Motor Assist (IMA). IMA blends the engine and electric motor's power to maximize efficiency and fuel economy. Of even more interest, there are two additional electric motors that power the front wheels.

From a stop, only the electric motors drive the front wheels to motivate the car. Should livelier acceleration be needed, the motors work in concert with the gasoline engine that, in turn, powers the rear wheels. During cornering, the motors and the engine are governed by computer to ensure optimum front-to-rear power distribution. In addition, Honda has equipped the DualNote with its Automatic Torque Transfer System (ATTS) and Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA). ATTS applies extra torque to the outside wheels during cornering, resulting in extra stability. VSA is a stability system that helps to minimize the chance of dangerous skids and spins.

All of this hardware is wrapped up in an advanced aluminum composite body measuring 172.8 inches in length. It features an integrated front spoiler for improved aerodynamics and an active suspension. The windows' opaqueness can be adjusted to vary the amount of infrared and ultraviolet light allowed into the cabin.

Inside, the DualNote features four race-type seats and an advanced cockpit that looks like the modern version of Knight Rider's KITT. The collection of display screens and gauges are used to show advanced features like navigation, Internet access and the views from the front-and-rear night-vision CCD cameras.

While we don't expect the DualNote to ever become any more real than KITT, some of its specific technologies might indicate Honda's future plans. For instance, the 3.5-liter V6 IMA system could quite possibly show up, sans 4WD, on Honda's Odyssey minivan.

A 400-hp 4WD supercar getting 40 mpg would be nice, but we'll certainly take a real-world 40-mpg minivan any day.

[2strokebloke]

Originally Posted by Steel

i still don't see why we don't start a conversion-to-methanol proccess. If it catches on thoughout the world, hell, the U.S. could devote huuuuge crops of wheat just for the alcohol, and be a major exporter of the stuff.

Because methanol is extremely deadly? I think you meant to say "ethanol" which you can easily make in your own backyard, and doesn't kill as many brain cells. (unless you drink it. WOW! 180 proof! But the ATF won't let you drink it)
Fuel cell technology has been with us since the 30's (I just returned a book of carburetor patents that featured a patent from the thirties for a carburetor that "burned" water! Actually, a tank under the carburetor broke water down using electroylic action, into oxygen and hydrogen which was released into the engine through the carburetor)

I've just got one question, where the hell is my gas turbine powered ford? Or my sterling engined GM? What the hell happened to all those projects these companies were working on in the 70's?
Probably the same thing that's going to happen to their current investigations into alternative power plants and fuels... NOTHING. We'll hear them boo-hoo about set up costs, and inefficiencies of mass production, and within thirty years we'll stop asking when their technological breakthrough is going to come out.

[tenguzero]

You have to consider though, there has NEVER been an automobile based on alternative fuel supplies that really made it into mass-production for consumers, and the current crop is in its second generation. I'm seeing more Civic Hybrids popping up, and the new Prius is getting EXCELLENT reviews. Couple this with the fact that this new generation is ready to embrace alternative fuel vehicles with open arms. When the Honda Accord appeared on the scene in '76, right in the midst of Detroit's glory years, the idea of compact, fuel efficient (46 MPG!) cars like that was not very well accepted. Now, it's the norm.

[2strokebloke]

Actually, alternative fuel vehicles have been in mass production before. The original Ford model A (the 1903 version, not the 1928 one) could be ordered to run on either gasoline, or alcohol. However the alcohol fuel industry died out, because big oil companies were already well established, and it was easier for most people to obtain gas, instead of alcohol for their vehicles, and so makers dropped alcohol fueled vehicles from their model lines.
Electric cars were also very popular prior to the 20's (and the capabilities of modern electrics don't exceed by very far those of electrics produced some 80 years ago! sad isn't it?)